Odd Jobs

[J-L]

My teams wear a halter under the bridle at all times. Many times the jobs I’m doing require me to be on and off the wagon or sled checking cattle, eartagging calves, changing water and many other little tasks. Sometimes I’m away from them longer than I anticipate, and farther away than we can hear eachother. When this is a possibility I like to be able to just tether them to a good brace post or a good tree and do it fairly quick.
I have had teams that’ll ‘park’ for hours untied. I’ve had the same team come out of ‘park’ when a moose came right by their noses. After gathering up the parts of my bobsled and a load of hay, I decided that the 30 seconds it would have taken to tie them was a bargain.
As far as standing while hooked to a wagon or cart etc., I don’t think the tongue weight will bother them that bad. The new one on my farmwagon is just a Lodgepole pine about 4″ at the end where I put the tongue cap on. It feels like they’re sharing about 20 lb. between them. It hasn’t sored or soured anyone for me yet.
It seems to me like standing is something that a lot of practice helps with. I like to let them stand even if I don’t need to sometimes. I have to agree with all who say that it gets reinforced a bunch better when sweat has run off them for a while though.

[Does’ Leap]

Carl,

I’m interested in your thoughts on tying. We never leave our horses to stand without the lines in reach and have halters on to tie if we need. This seems to most often occur with the log cart. If the horses are tied securely with limited length of line how does entanglement with the cart happen? We have occasionally hitched them to a tree as well, but I felt the need to continue to check on them. It seems like if they were distressed there would be a lot of room for swinging around the tree and getting hurt or entangled. Tied at the head and hitched to the cart seems to me (an amateur) to have less potential for problems. Would you mind elaborating on that?

Also interesting that Donn loads his manure spreader with a second person there. I had thought potentially of working toward a hitching post scenario while loading the spreader, but I guess maybe not….

Kristan

[Donn Hewes]

George, I just realized I should point out I am filling the spreader with a tractor bucket. If I was filling it by hand it is a good example of something I would expect / teach / demand they do by standing without assistance. I think it also illustrates the point that you need to evaluate each team, your self, and what you are asking them to do. Err on the side of caution, but this is a valuable skill and important skill for them to have. For me, and my animals, on my farm the difference is between filling with a tractor and filling by hand. Each of us needs to figure this out for themselves.

[Carl Russell]

As far as tying when hitched, other than facing into a hitch rail, or some other substantial frontal barrier, or as in the case that J-L describes, this can be compromising for a horse if, assuming they are hitched in traces and pole or shafts, when they step ahead or off to one side and get their head turned back, being out of line with the rest of their body it can be very difficult for them to retrace their steps to get back in a place of comfort, especially as the wheels or runners of the equipment will be working against them.

I did not mean to insinuate that horses cannot be tied without success, but horses that stand quietly and don’t test the rope will stand just that quietly without the rope, and those that want to test the rope should be spared the potential difficulty.

I just prefer to work with my horses so that they will stand when told whoa, rather than trying to work with them not standing when told whoa and then tying them as a solution. I will mention that I did not come to this decision on my own. These were guidances that I got from several of my mentors. I never work a horse that won’t stand for me to change halter and bridle, and I always have my horses stand before I require them to for a particular task.

There is no doubt that horses that have worked appreciate a chance to stand, but standing is a command that I expect response from even when they’re high on fresh grass and pawing at the ground. I don’t load my spreader with a tractor, so my horses stand and wait for me to load by hand, of course then I get to rest while they work to spread it, and then they appreciate the rest in their turn.

The main thing about doing small tasks and odd jobs is that the animals need to be taken seriously, and they need to take working seriously. Sometimes I can go 2 weeks without hitching them, then want them to only pull the cultivator/row maker, and when I need to get off and adjust something, they have to stand, and I don’t have time to go drag out a 1/4 of a cord of wood to calm them down.

Yes horses that are hitched by a chain can move around a lot, and that can also be problematic, but I generally park them facing so that they won’t be inclined to move.

I think there is a big difference between standing while working and being left un-attended. I have had horses stumble and fall down in the woods while hitched double on the cart or sled, and have had to completely un-harness them to get them back on their feet. They need to be able to stand to wait, for one to be re-harnessed, and the both re-hitched. In these , and other “working” situations, I expect them to stand. I reiterate this expectation verbally, and physically by touching them and making sure they know I want them to remain calm and in place.

However, when unattended, or if I don’t feel like I want them hooked to a tree and I need to cut, in no more than 5 minutes I can have them unhitched and tied to safe tethers. In my mind they are either working, standing and working, or they are tied. Just how I was taught, and how I practice my own interpretation of safety.

This is not to say that a horse tethered to a tree can’t get themselves in a heap of trouble. I’ve had them wrap up a front leg in the lead, so take from this what you want.

Carl

[Does’ Leap]

Yes, I figured you were loading with a tractor. I would load by hand with my lines near me, but had thought that maybe eventually, once we’d done enough that the tractor bucket is totally routine for them we could load it while they were tied. Maybe this is unrealistic…..it is really good to know what other people feel is safe and reasonable.

thanks -Kristan

[jen judkins]

@Donn Hewes 9179 wrote:

Hi Jen, Just out of curiosity, when you headed up to Ted’s last week you hoped to work on the whoa, witch was needing some work. Did you mean stopping when you asked or standing after stopping? The reason I ask is because we have been mixing our terms a little and I just wanted to see what you were working on.

Good question and I agree there is a difference. To be honest, my concern was, that when I said the word ‘whoa’, nothing happened unless I used the reins and then when I was effective with the reins, Peanut would constantly fidgit, requiring me to constantly correct him from going sideways or backwards or pawing or whatever. So I guess I wanted to work on both.

But the concept is similar, I think. Peanut just never knew that standing still in harness was valuable. When we were harrowing and I said ‘whoa’, he stopped before the word had left my mouth…no line pressure and no correction from me…and that is what I was looking for. That stop simply lead to standing and to park. I’ll include a photo courtesy of Jean Cross.

[Donn Hewes]

Today was weaning day, and over the years we have tried different methods for moving the lambs to their own pasture for the first time. There isn’t anything much harder to herd than about 60 lambs that are at most a month and a half old and have never learned anything but follow mom.

For the last couple years we have used this little trailer, ( same one we use for hauling to the butcher) and that has worked OK. Today, with the wet grass and the slight hill location I thought our two wheel drive toyota had a pretty good chance of getting stuck.

Quick put a ball in the forecart, and off we go. This the gravy. A fun, odd job that you know will work because of all the time you have already spent on the mower, harrow, and spreader. You gotta watch out when all the lambs run out of the trailer screaming for their mothers. One went under the mules noses. Good thing I was standing there. Too wet for hay now – I guess I will go back to clipping. Donn

PS. weaning weights were excellent, one 55 pounder!, There are a few yearlings in the picture. We don’t breed lambs and replacements spend the second summer leading the lambs around showing them the place.

[jen judkins]

OMG, That’s awesome!

[near horse]

Standing (my definition) is a horse or a team, in harness with lines attached. Standing waiting until the next instruction to do something. They may be hooked to something or not. Someone may have the lines in their hand or not. Someone maybe standing in front of them or not. They are not tied up. Jason calls it Parked.

This is an incredibly important and useful skill for working horses, mules, and probable oxen. I think it is also often misunderstood or misused. I use it a million times a day to hook and unhook, to hook carts to other pieces of equipment, to rest, To examine hay, or nose into the shop and fix a loose bolt. I use it when tugs are tangled, or a neck yoke breaks

I have a practical (I think) “rookie” question regarding standing or parking. My team was pretty wells schooled in this regard (no thanks to me) and still do a nice job when it comes to something serious – Example(s) bolt broke on my double tree while plowing – no problem. Operator tipped over on sulky plow while driving:o – no trouble. Plus the obligatory tangled tugs – no sweat.

But when it’s time to unhitch they get antsy and want to walk off (start to take a step or two) before I’m done getting traces undone. I make them stop and then continue about my business but it starts again. Do I need to just make them stand quietly longer before I continue unhitching? I know there’s usually alot going on – other teams unhitching, drinking, eating etc but I don’t see that as any reason they can’t stand for me.

[Carl Russell]

near horse;9217 wrote:

….
But when it’s time to unhitch they get antsy and want to walk off (start to take a step or two) before I’m done getting traces undone. I make them stop and then continue about my business but it starts again. Do I need to just make them stand quietly longer before I continue unhitching? I know there’s usually alot going on – other teams unhitching, drinking, eating etc but I don’t see that as any reason they can’t stand for me.

This why I say there is no difference between whoa and stand. In fact whoa means stand, in my mind.

If they are moving they obviously have to stop first, but there are not two meanings for the same word, at least as far as the horse knows. If you practice using whoa as a way to get them to interrupt their progress, or change directions, then that is what they will learn. However, if you use whoa as “stand” then that is what they will learn.

Whenever you say whoa to them have them stand. They need to show that they are resting, relaxed, standing. You will need to get into the practice of starting them before they try to start on their own, so that they learn that whoa means stand until told to move.

When they are standing well for you sometime, start unhitching. It may have as much to do with the fact that they know, by where you’ve parked, or your body language, that they are done with work, and they may be anticipating food, or water, or freedom. Break up the routine that they are anticipating.
Carl

[Rod44]

When I unhitch mine, I always make them stand in place on either side of the pole for awhile (minute or two or three) before I walk them away. I vary the time so they don’t get programed into going. I may leave them tied back to the wagon and walk around a little bit to give them some variety and not expect to go right away.

[Gabe Ayers]

Repetition is a great form of emphasis and the repeated message from the old hands here is that the more you work them the better whoa works and as it becomes found to be a part of their function they will park where even and when ever you want and need them too.

And WELCOME BACK JOEL, glad you are still with us here on DAP, hope your recovery continues.

It is a simple matter of working them until they want to stand – then while working, as they are doing everything just right, stop them and let it be a reward. One subtle signal is dropping contact with their mouths immediately after that stop signaled from some increased line tension and voice command, whoa. Then as you gather your lines again it is like saying “attention” to a solider, they become alert, ears back listening and then continue the light contact in their mouths, command to move and release simultanously but keep enough contact to steer and control their pace confidently and comfortably from the first step onward.

Somehow – within here ~ there is a discussion about the reality that horses are prey animals and movement is certainly an instinctual survival response – so working them, has a part of that instinct in their dynamic. The key seems to be getting the prey animal to a point of realizing that standing still is a safe way to be a prey animal too. It has to be linked to the comfort you emit as a alpha horse in the horses minds. That presence around the horses is what these old hands have. It just comes with much time spent working the animals just like being happy to stand still comes to the horses.

Be consistent, be clear, be confident of what you want them to do, and the better you get at it, the less it looks like you are actually doing.

Maybe a hitching post for starting and stopping your working them would help too. Particularly if you work without an assistant (smaller herd setting in the horses minds). Keeping it safe is the foundation of all successful work.

I am also with Joel, about I want to hear what everyone has to say about their experience and perception – vain or not… I think everyone should be proud of their animal husbandry skills, it is not easy and the pride has to be earned.

[Carl Russell]

I’m setting myself up for a new odd job on the farm. For years I have mowed hay, and clipped pastures with my old New Idea sickle bar mower. However, there are new fields to improve with pretty woody brush, so I just ordered a DR Tag-along 13hp self motorized brush mower.

Carl

[Jean]

Carl, Check the tires before you get going. my neighbor just mowed his field with one and after the first trip around he had lost a tire.

I would like to pick up the grass he mowed, it was about a foot tall, with seed heads. Does anybody know of any danger to feeding hay that has been chopped into maybe 4 inch pieces? I would have to ted and pick up by hand, but it might be worth it if it does not harm a horse.

Jean

[OldKat]

@Jean 9330 wrote:

Carl, Check the tires before you get going. my neighbor just mowed his field with one and after the first trip around he had lost a tire.

I would like to pick up the grass he mowed, it was about a foot tall, with seed heads. Does anybody know of any danger to feeding hay that has been chopped into maybe 4 inch pieces? I would have to ted and pick up by hand, but it might be worth it if it does not harm a horse.

Jean

If the grass(es), forbs, legumes or whatever in the sward are species that would not normally harm a horse all you would be doing is substituting their labor (grazing) for yours (picking it up and hauling it). That should not be a problem. However, if you piled it up in piles and they didn’t eat it all and then it went through a heat, that is it began to compost, then yes the remainder of that pile would be dangerous to feed to them.

I like figuring out ways to use resources like this that would otherwise go to waste. As long as it is cost effective to do it, there is no way you shouldn’t consider it. Let us know what you come up with.

[Author]

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