Other Logging Tools.

[Does’ Leap]

I am interested to hear about folks using tools other than a logging arch to extract logs. Carl, I once asked you your preferred logging tool and your answer was “depends on the situation”. Can you (and others) detail the advantages of the various tools you use and the situations you use them in? I am particularly interested in the use of a scoot and a bob sled.

Thanks.

George

[Rick Alger]

I’ve used a set of sleds just once. It was a situation where the yarding distance was over a mile. Once the haul road was set up and the logs were piled at a brow, I could move around a thousand feet at a turn and easily land a truck load in a day. The difficilties were prepping the haul road, swamping space to stockpile the logs at the brow, and loading the logs safely. (you should have helpers)

I use a scoot for wood that is too small to justify a trip out with the arch such as pulp pieces I cut while making trails and fire wood I cut from tops. Anything that is easy to hand load and falls somewhere near the trails. Many times I’ve cut and piled firewood in the woods at odd times and then gone back later on frozen ground to scoot it out.

[Carl Russell]

George, I am preparing to respond, but it will have to wait till I have a bit more time.

Carl

[lancek]

We have some very steep craggy valleys here in mo and the job we are working now they threw all the trees down into these valleys! So I am in the proses of building a movable capstan winch on a sled that we can move from area to area to extract the logs out of these valleys and then twich them to the landing! hopefully this will save a lot of ware and tare on the horses! I am looking to use Scott bull type rope as cable we will see what happens Lancek

[Does’ Leap]

Good luck Lancek. Please post some pics when your done.

[Carl Russell]

I have two log carts, a bobsled, a scoot, and what I call a bunk cart. As I have said before I use which ever piece best fits the situation. Oh, and I also will use the animals ground skidding as another option.

One of my carts is a Barden Cart, and the other is similar to Jason’s Fisher arch. The Barden cart probably gets used more than any other piece because it is so light, accessible, and convenient as I can carry tools and supplies easily. I typically skid tree length with this cart, or a maximum log size of 300bf. Obviously if there are tight corners then I have to cut the log/trees shorter. On frozen ground going downhill on a straight stretch of road I have pulled 500bf in 2 white pines with 3 logs each. I also typically consider 1000-1500 feet to be my maximum skidding length, as this type of equipment is best when following the old adage ” Go light, and go often”.

The other cart is much heavier, with a higher hitch bar, so I use it similarly to the Barden cart when terrain is rough (slamming and banging), and when timber is large (I can use the cradle choker method better wth this cart).

With both of these carts I skid right from the stump, or where the tree falls, usually swamping out brush, but also I use a 15-20′ chain to reach into tough places. I really like the Barden cart’s hitching design, with a grab hook offset at the same height as a large slip hook so that the weight of the log is born perpendicular to the slot on the grab, and the chain can be released easily. I modified the hitch bar on the other cart so that the chain runs up over a 3″ pipe before it goes into the slot in the hitch bar. This way the weight of the log is born perpendicular to the slot, and the chain can be whipped, or pried easily out of the slot.

The other wheeled vehicle that I use is a Bunk Cart. This is a set of wheels that are fitted with a single bunk between them. It looks like a bobsled on wheels. The bunk is about 2 – 2 1/2 feet off the ground so it isn’t that easy to load without a boom. I have mounted a boom on a tree by resting the base of a spruce pole in the ground between root flares at the base of a tree, and chaining the top back to the bole of the tree. Hanging a come-a-long from the end of the boom, the ends of logs can be lifted and loaded. This is cumbersome work, and really only valuable for pulling long logs over very long distances.

The way that I have mostly used this bunk cart is to move tree length right from the stump. In this case I load it by forcing the wheels to roll the log up onto the bunk. If the cart is backed into the log near the butt, so that both wheels are against the bole of the tree, then a choker is wrapped tightly around the tree and hooked to the bunk. When the cart moves forward the length of the tree causes the butt to press heavily against the tire closest to the butt. By turning slightly in that direction while moving, the tire rolling forward from back over the top will lift the log, and as the log reaches the top of the tire, the cart is turned the rest of the way so that the horse are in line with the tree, and the tree is in the center of the cart. It then has to be chained securely there so that it doesn’t roll from side to side, or the cart will capsize (I know from experience). I don’t use this very often, but it is amazing the size of tree that can be handled like this. I have used it primarily for white pine cabin logs that were 38′ and 42′ long, and had a top end diameter of 11″.

The bobsled is probably my most favorite woods tool, although I don’t use it as often as the Barden cart. I use the bobsled in all seasons, for skids that are longer than 1500 feet. Even though it gives some advantage going uphill, the advantage is greater when pulling downhill. I usually use the cart for uphill skids in summer, where the sled works pretty well going uphill in winter.

When I use the bobsled, I am skidding, or twitching, logs out of the woods to centrally located brows. The brow doesn’t have to be very elaborate. I usually look for a place where there is a slight rise beside the trail that I can roll the logs onto the sled from. I will make several of these along the main trail, or throughout the stand. I also like to find a place where the sled will start easily. I prefer twitching with a single horse, but will sometimes use the team. I rarely work the stand with the cart stockpiling logs to be sledded later, but I have done that when cutting firewood off the top of my land, skid length 1/2 mil +.

When I am cutting logs, or working in the winter, I like to clean up each days’ production so I don’t have to dig for it later. I drive the team into the woods on the sled, with saw, halters, hay, and my back-pack. When I get to the brow I park the sled and tie up the horses on trees. When I have logs cut I sskid them out, loading them onto the sled as they come out. I will explain the chaining later. If things are right I can load between 700-1000 BF of softwood on the sled. The load size is dependent on the length of the logs, the variations in terrain, and the condition of the horses. If I have room I will cut a second load and skid it onto the brow. I’ll pull the first load, then load the second without having to unhitch the horses.

I am running out of time, so I will mention that I wrote an article about using the bobsled for SFJ, Fall 1999 pg. 86. If I get it scanned in I will upload it here.

I love riding a loaded bobsled in winter. There is a real feeling of accomplishment. It is the way horses were meant to be used in the woods, in my mind.

I also use a scoot to move logs year-round, but end up using it mostly in the winter, for significant uphill skids. Because it has two bunks, the logs ride completely off the ground, significantly reducing friction. I lay out the brows in exactly the same way as with the bobsled, but I usually put on a load of 400-600 BF. It is much easier to chain them on as the scoot has stakes on the ends of the bunks, and because the logs don’t drag, they don’t move around a lot.

The difference between the bobsled and the scoot revolves around runner length. The scoot runners are 12 feet long whereas the bobsled runners are more like six feet long. This is important when it comes to maneuvering around obstacles, and traveling downhill. Because the bobsled had short runners the pole is attached solidly to the front of the sled, making it more effectively steered and held back. Because the scoot has log runners the pole is attached loosely to the front of the sled, and it allows to move from side to side to allow the animals to step over to pull the sled around. This makes it more difficult to steer and hold back when going downhill. Not bad, just different. Also I can spin a bobsled around in a circle, where I have to drive around a loop to change directions with a scoot. I can also back the bobsled into tight quarters, whereas a scoot can be backed up, it is not a simple maneuver.

I also wrote an article about logging with a scoot in SFJ summer 2001, pg. 68.

Here’s poem I wrote a few years back for one of my mentors when he died.

Bobsledding Logs

It’s 4:30, quarter to five,
on a crisp mid-winter afternoon.
The sun has gone down behind the hill,
and you can see dusk forming in the shadows.

Dry powder snow covers the ground.
The temperature never got above fifteen degrees today,
but working in the sun, you warmed up easily.
Now a slight chill seeps into the dampness of sweat on your shoulders.

The team is ready,
hitched in front of a nice jag of fine straight logs.
Put your coat back on, and check for mislaid tools.
Climb up on the load, gather lines,
brace your feet, and calmly call on your animals.

As the load lurches forward,
puffs of steamy breath float from the horses’ nostrils.
You can feel the weight of the load through your legs,
as the bobsled travels over humps and through hollows.

Hooves thump and squeak,
as chips of ice fly from sharpened caulks.
From below the load comes the jingle of bridle chains,
and as the logs rasp over the frozen snow
they put forth a whine, like from a bow on a fiddle.

Feel that?… That’s the spirit in your soul dancing the bob-sledder’s jig.
” Now we’re logging”.

1998; For Walt Bryan; Farmer horse logger, family man.

I could go on and on. I may add some more, including pictures when I have a bit more time. Gotta go get a load of hay.

Carl

[mitchmaine]

one peice of equipment i used to use was a pulp cart or trailer. i used to use it on dry ground pinned through the bunk of a single set of sleds. the cart had one axle with 20 ” truck wheels and could hold a cord of four foot wood easily and the horses had no trouble moving it. with the steel shod sleds up front the load was never in danger of rolling up on them. i went back to two sleds on ice and snow. worked good and was quite manuverable.

[Does’ Leap]

How about using a bobsled with a second sled behind (is this what you were describing Mitchmaine)? Wouldn’t this give you the extra bunk (advantage of the scoot) and more maneuverability? Also, is it fairly standard the the front bunk on a bobsled rotates?

[mitchmaine]

hey george, yes. a set of bob sleds had a front and rear sled, attached to each other with cross chains(two chains that crossed each other from one sled to the other making an x). when the front swung right, the rear went left making a tighter circle. each sled had a steel plate(wear plate)on the top of the bunk with a 1″ hole in the center. a 3 or 4 foot long hardwood 4×4 sat there pinned into each bunk. the two 4×4’s carried a body or pulp bunks or logs. they had stake iron on each end usually but that is where you got creative for whatever you were doing. some even had dogs dragging behind the runners to dig in if you had to stop on a hill. sleds rule.

[mitchmaine]

anybody ever see elmon mitchell’s rig at lif in unity, me? basically it was a horse drawn skidder. a rugged built forecart with an arch behind it. the fairlead, pulley or snatchblock was about eye level so you could pull logs right up high off the ground. had a gas powered winch but you could make it anyway you wanted. he would haul three 12″ pines easily by tree length maybe 50-60′. pretty slick rig

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