Oxen, donkeys and mules?

[Nat(wasIxy)]

Quite a few oxpeople I speak to find they also have an affinity with donkeys, but don’t like horses much. This is something I noticed when I worked with horses – I always got on better with the donkeys! Now the more I read about donkeys, the more I think you could substitute the word ‘donkey’ for ‘ox’ and still be pretty accurate!

My question is, does this extend to mules? I’ve always been a bit fascinated by them, but never had the chance to interact very much with them so have no idea. I was thinking perhaps the horse influence would be too much and would ruin the relationship for a ox/donkey person?

[Rod]

You might substitute the word Donkey for ox but not the power. My standard donkeys can just about pull my empty stone boat.

[Nat(wasIxy)]

well, obviously yes, this thread is more to do with temperament/psychology than physical abilities….

[jac]

Hi Ixy.. good to hear you again… my own situation has been for years Clydesdale dominated but have been more and more drawn to oxen ??.. realy I admire all forms of animal draft used in the right situation.. John

[Robert MoonShadow]

@Rod 29858 wrote:

You might substitute the word Donkey for ox but not the power. My standard donkeys can just about pull my empty stone boat.

Wow. How much does that stone boat weigh?

[Rod]

I would guess about 125-150 lbs. I put two 20lb. blocks on it and the bigger one could pull it on the level and a small up grade but Blue the smaller one pulled it a 100 feet and then quit. I had to grab his halter and help him move it. They re not well trained or conditioned to a load but I could see this was reaching the limit of what I could get out of them as they are. I know of oxen the same a little lighter than my two donkeys that will pull 600lbs or more on a stone boat with no problem.

[Nat(wasIxy)]

Interesting, because legend I’m sure would have it that lb for lb, donkeys would be the stronger. But then again legend would have it that anything’s stronger than an ox apparently!

[Rod]

@Ixy 29895 wrote:

Interesting, because legend I’m sure would have it that lb for lb, donkeys would be the stronger. But then again legend would have it that anything’s stronger than an ox apparently!

I have to be careful here because I was mixing apples and oranges in my last post, the oxen I was referring to was a team (senior moment). Having used with both animal types my observation is that oxen appear to be much stronger BUT their are so many variables. My donkeys are basically pasture pets, overweight and under exercised. They are also very smart and able to put on an act to avoid work etc. I used them as a team on an empty 600# sled a few years back and they could barely pull it and could not move it up the 10% grade of my gravel driveway. At that time the donkey team weight I estimate was 1000-1200 lbs.
The young steers I had at that time were a bit heavier but not much and could pull that same sled anywhere with without a hint of being at their capacity. Presently I am looking at a pair of 2 year old Dutch Belts which weigh 1600 as a pair and have pulled 3300 Lbs on a stone boat in a 6′ pull. For short distances trained and conditioned oxen teams can sometimes pull 2.5 times their weight or more. Their is no way the I can see my donkey team doing anything like that even with training and conditioning.

[Demented Donkey Dame]

“My question is, does this extend to mules? I’ve always been a bit fascinated by them, but never had the chance to interact very much with them so have no idea. I was thinking perhaps the horse influence would be too much and would ruin the relationship for a ox/donkey person?

I think we strayed from the original question so let me attempt an answer. I spent my youth around mules, the ones who were bred from the free roaming mares that were to ornery to ride. Grandpa would put them in with his Jack. I can testify that where a mule gets his temperament from is the mare. Those mules were out to “kill” us!
My best broodmare was sold to raise mules. She is sweetness plus, her babies are being sold before they are born for big bucks! I have handled a few of her mule babies and they were trusting, kind and willing to be your best friend. It takes a mule and a
donkey time to built that trust with their handler but these babies seem to have it right from the start.
My answer would be to look at the mare and what was done with a perspective mule as a baby? Each mule is different, but they certainly will never be like a donkey! There are donkey folks and mule people, I’m glad we switched and will never go back to either mules or horses.

[Donn Hewes]

Not knowing anything about oxen; although I have been around a few cattle, I can compare horses, mules, and donkeys to some degree. I currently have all three. A mule is half horse and half donkey, and in my opinion that is how they act. I all ways describe the difference between a horse and a donkey as the difference between a dog and a cat. They both like people and attention, but the dog / horse just relies on it more and excepts it with less question. The donkey, and to some extent the mule, remain more independent even after training and working for people.

I think horses are easier to train than mules, and mules are easier to train than donkeys, but so what? Most mule and donkey folks didn’t set out to do something because it was easy.

[Joshua Kingsley]

When I was a kid my first draft animal was a standard donkey. I tought him to drive with help from my sister and brother we were all young and ann’s idea was if danny liked a carrot he would drive cause she would give him a bite after following her dragging the cart. well it took us a while but he was good about it. after a while he would drive with no one in front of him and we just started having fun. not knowing any better we would try to hitch him to anything that we thought could move. Pallets hooked to gether to make sides for a fort, logs branches all with a brest collar harness. Danny weighed around 500 pounds and there were times when he pulled more than that i am sure, kids gardentractors stuck in the mud anything you can dream up. i started a pair of holstine steers a couple years ago and when they were 250 each they didn’t do near as much as the donkey but then again im not 10 any more and have a better idea about how and what to start loads with.
joshua

[Robert MoonShadow]

I think its probably a matter of the human…if YOU really like that particular animal, I truly believe that that animal knows this…and will respond better for that person…especially if that animal likes you, too. I always heard that oxen were stronger, horses faster, donkeys tougher and mules gave more speed and strength than a donkey, and more stamina/endurance than a horse. Its interesting reading here on how different people view the differences…I feel more attuned to donkeys (yeah, I know that leaves me wide open for comments, here LOL), and find them easy to train – that they prefer human company more-so than horses. Not that I’m really experienced at all. I got into donkeys because from what I studied and researched, they seemed to fit my way of doing things “more better” –> I expect more from them than I do the mules and horses I’m in contact with, in terms of focusing on me, understanding my fumbling attempts to teach and communicate, and such. When I screw up, I noticed that an ear scratch, an apology and a hug from me, and all is forgiven. Not forgotten…but forgiven. I guess I’m saying that I think – for me – donkeys can adapt to me and my limited skills better – I’m pretty sure that if the mistakes I made w/ my girls were done on a horse, I’d have ruined that horse. I’d really hate to have that happen.
As for how much work I can get from them…with this D-ring harness I got (big thanks to Rod!!), my 52″, 650 lb. Jenny-Mae is set to start snigging small firewood logs within the next week or so, starting w/ a 4″ diameter, 6 ft. lodgepolepine I’ve got waiting for her.

[dominiquer60]

I have been a horse person for a good portion of my life, I rode, drove and participated in a therapeutic riding program. I like horses, and I like working horses even more:) At the 2008 NEAPFD I saw a couple of the calf training workshops and had the opportunity to work with some calves the following year. I am hooked on cattle now, but certainly have not lost my appreciation for horses.

I think Robert is on to something about it “being about the human.” There things that I expect from all species I deal with, but there are certain things that I would expect different when dealing with horse, ox, dog or person respectfully, and it is a matter of adapting to each. Some of us are more fitted to working a certain type of animal and others may have a better ability to switch freely between any of them. I haven’t really met an animal that I didn’t like, but I have met many whos training and care I just don’t agree with, and pity the situation such an animal is in (especially the show horses that I deal with). All in all, if the shoe fits wear it, some people just have multiple pairs of shoes to choose from.

[Robert MoonShadow]

Erika said it much better than I did…:o

[Nat(wasIxy)]

I realise “it’s about the person”, what I’m not getting here is specific answers to my question, which is about these people! To try and get us back on track:

I work best with oxen, and find that donkeys are a close second. Having spoken to various oxpeople, it’s the same for them too which indicates there’s something more than random individual preference at work, that these animals are more similar in their working attitudes than oxen and horses or donkeys and horses.

Now, given that a mule is half donkey half horse, do ox/donkeypeople find they like/can work mules too, or is perhaps the 50% horse a step too far in that direction for them? I’m asking because, having never worked with one but knowing I like donkeys, I would consider owning one IF there’s enough of that donkey persona in there for us to get on. I know I don’t want to go back to rearing, nipping, bolting and spooking…donkeys and oxen seem much more ‘on a level’ with me as a working companion, they think their way through a problem/fright. Does a mule do this? Parelli reckon a mule is ‘like a horse but moreso’ the thought of which fills me with dread…but I have read contrasting opinions!

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