Oxen Whips

[Andy Carson]

I do target the head of my off ox a bit and this was actually my primary concern. I don’t mind pestering or tapping his head, but I really don’t like that I don’t have another “gear” without using the lash. In a perfect world I would like to target the front legs, but my nigh ox works much better if I push from behind his shoulder. This keeps the two of them most even (although the off ox still walks a half step ahead). I am working on being able to walk more out in front and nto be tied to his shoulder, and they are improving, but if they get “naughty” I need to get back to my behind the shoulder position for best control. In that position, I simply can’t reach the front leg of the off ox and have to reach over the top of my nigh to reach the head. Also, that’s the signal they are used to which is an important factor too. I think I’m going to try a moderately flexible stick without a lash at all. I rarely (if ever) actually need the harshness of the lash and can probably achive this with a flexible stick anyway. I’ll see what happens… I am attracted to the simplicity and possible refinded control that I might get from a lashless semi-flexible stick.

[Tim Harrigan]

I am generally by the point of the shoulder as well. If I want to touch the off ox on the knees I just put the whip in my left hand and sort of lunge forward and bend my knees to get a little lower and reach around in front of the nigh ox. You can do it in one motion and the off ox does not really see it coming, which is good. That is one reason why I suggested that you might want the faster one in the nigh position. It is easy then to tap the nigh on the knees or nose if you prefer, and easy to reach back and tap the off ox on the butt to pick him up. When is it the other way around it is more difficult to touch either of them where you would like to, at least is it for me.

[Tim Harrigan]

I know you have to develop a system that works but my opinion is that you should get away from hitting them in the face or head as soon as possible. Will knows, and Abe also knew, that if I every hit them in the face that they had committed a major infraction. It was very rare and I did not have to hit very hard. If you work their face a lot that just gets to be part of the process for them.

[Anonymous]

Can’t help but smiling when I read this thread. I’m from Bridgewater NS. I there are more stories about how effective those whips are than there are teamsters who can use them. We had feild day at my home last spring with some oxen, a friend of mine can crack his whip so loud it makes your ears ring for a couple minutes. I have a whip but am not very good with it. A old timer up the road cut the end of cigareete off wile it was still in the mouth of his friend. When the friend cursed at him saying ” you could have cut my nose off” The whip handler said” Oh relax I was a good inch away from your face”

Cheers Tristan

[Andy Carson]

I think I will try to transition to the legs. I don’t mind tapping on the head, but if I give them a whop on the head, I am not leaving myself any harsher treatments for if they are very very bad. The two situations that generate a “whop” right now are 1) ignoring several taps (which I view as willfull disobediance) and 2) Not Whoaing. Even though I think both of these are major infractions, I would still like a more gentle signal that does not generate confusion, and does not have the potential of injury. I do really appreciate the quiet and peaceful relationship you have with your ox(en) in your videos, Tim. It is my goal to get to that point someday. I think at this early stage, I am going to have to be strive to be strict but also fair about enforcing my rules and we probably won’t get really quiet 100% of the time for a while. Right now, I can see spurts of the quiet that I expect to be the future norm, but they are still punctuated by periods of “rule breaking.” I am begining to appreciate the whip or goad with oxen as the equivalent of a bit for horses. It is the primary tool by which I communicate with the animals and choice of tool is probably dictated both by the teamster and the animals and likely have to fit both in a very personal way. Personally, I tend to be direct, strong, and quick in my communication, and I probably do not need a tool (such as a lash) that is going to amplify these traits. I have always used the most gentle bit possible on horses and bet I would like the most gentle goad as well. I think that is a stick. I suppose it that is too harsh I will use a feather duster. Just kidding 🙂

[Anonymous]

I’m having trouble, walking to the side. My boys do pretty well with me in front. As soon as I move to the left side, we all start turning left. Also, from the left side, reaching down under the front, trying to avoid the face of the off ox is tough. Is this where the lash comes in ? I’d like to slow the off ox down and prevent him from turning us left.

[Tim Harrigan]

Andy, if they are testing your resolve with the whoa command you might want to have part of your daily sessions be a “whoa” boot camp. Make them do it 30 times in a row. They are going to be testing you right along, any team worth their salt will. Not only with ‘whoa’, but with just about everything. Try a few different approaches to demonstrate your intention, maybe not always with the goad. With horses you have that constant physical contact and communication. With oxen you have to demonstrate the contact and communication in other ways. If you find yourself having to discipline them too much or too severely
“What we have here is a failure to communicate…”
That is a team issue, not necessarily the ox’s fault alone. In fact, it is probably not solely the ox’s fault. But you can’t speed the process of developing that understanding and clear and consistent guidelines are the best way to get there.

Mark, is your team simply drifting into you or is the off ox pushing the nigh ox over because he is quicker? If they are just drifting over then you can use a goad with a bit of a point on it, hold it perpendicular to the ground next to the nigh ox’s shoulder and hold your line as they start to drift. The nigh ox will not care for pushing the point of the goad into his shoulder and he will drift back where he belongs. If your off ox is causing the problem by being to fast then you work on that problem, but if the nigh ox wants to hold a straight line he can communicate that to the off ox.

We have had the drifting discussion on this site in the past, if you search the oxen threads you can probably find it.

[Tim Harrigan]

@Countymouse 33316 wrote:

. I suppose it that is too harsh I will use a feather duster. Just kidding 🙂

Andy, when you get to where you want to be with these guys, a feather duster will be just fine. Not kidding

[Tim Harrigan]

@Countymouse 33316 wrote:

… Right now, I can see spurts of the quiet that I expect to be the future norm, but they are still punctuated by periods of “rule breaking.” … 🙂

Andy, just for your own reflection, think of the broader context of the ‘quiet’ and the ‘rule breaking’. Is the quiet when you are most focused and attentive to their behavior? Are you maybe not quite so attentive when the rule breaking flairs up? I always found it helpful to think of their behavior within the context of the bigger picture and the signals that I intentionally or unintentionally gave.

[gerritmuk]

very usefull message bravo )

[Andy Carson]

Tim, Thanks for the thoughts and insights. I don’t want to give the wrong impression. I really enjoy my new team and I am proud of what we have beeen able to do as a team. This isn’t a bitch session, more of a “how can this get even better” session. I suppose the quietest times are when the boys are pulling a medium to med-light load and are asked to go instraight lines and do simple 90 degree haws for several minutes. They get in a comfort zone with these types of movements they know well and are easy for them. Rule breaking sometimes (but doesn’t always) happens when they are asked to break this ruitine. Whoa, by the way, is great with the sled. They’ll whoa for 15 minutes at a pop without twittering after pulling it for a while. Whoa, and any other command, carries significantly less weight without the sled attached. That sled is like an adolescent ox tranquilizer… Carried too far, though, they get over tired and start acting up again. So, I suppose the three main triggers for rule breaking 1. work without the sled 2. overloading the sled and 3. asking them to do things that forces them out of the “come, haw” box like asking for a 180 degree gee turn. The vast majority of these are minor “bitches” on their part, but sometimes turn into mini eruptions. One thing that tend to do cause these little situations to flare up is if I over correct. This is why I am looking into goads to replace my whip. Think it my interpretation of my signalling dialog with my off ox when things go wrong.

Me: “Gee” (fiddle with whip)
Abbot: “maybe he will forget”
Me: (tap with whip)
Abbot: “He doesn’t mean it”
Me: (WHAP)
Abbot: “Holy sh*t what was that!!!” (irrational fear, forgets Gee command)

This is why I am looking for a tool with a medium speed… Sometimes I can feather the “whap,” but I am not very good at it.

[Droverone]

I have a half dozen plastic or wooden, if you want plastic ones email me droverone@Aol.com

[Oxhill]

I think whip vs goad is a very personal thing. You need to try both and go with what works for you. For me I prefer a goad as long as I can reach everything. Once a team gets too big for a goad then I need a whip. I prefer a goad because they are simply easier, more versatile and more accurate. You don’t need to fiddle with the lash and there is no lash to get snagged on anything. With a good flexible goad you can very easily go from making all the same movements without touching them to a tap to as stern as you want to be. I know you can be very accurate with a whip with practice but I don’t think a whip can ever be as consistently accurate as a goad. Also I have the perfect goad but was never able to find the perfect whip.

Do you have any pics Chris?

[Droverone]

these are some of the uncovered ones solid and twisted, they come in everal color combinations, with lashes.

[Tim Harrigan]

@Countymouse 33326 wrote:

….. I suppose the quietest times are when the boys are pulling a medium to med-light load and are asked to go instraight lines and do simple 90 degree haws for several minutes. They get in a comfort zone with these types of movements they know well and are easy for them. Rule breaking sometimes (but doesn’t always) happens when they are asked to break this ruitine….Carried too far, though, they get over tired and start acting up again…. One thing that tend to do cause these little situations to flare up is if I over correct…

Andy, you are starting to understand the context within which they start to act poorly, so use that to your advantage. If you know that they are getting physically or mentally tired keep it simple and end on a good experience. Don’t push them past the place where they start to rebel. Up to it maybe, but not beyond. Help them develop mental resilience. If they are in the process of learning or refining a new skill, make sure they have the mechanics down before you expect precision. If you start to see that they are starting to ramp up their excitement level, just put the whip away. They can not learn when they are in an excited frame of mind. They have to be calm and attentive to learn. Sometimes a new skill can be a mess one day and be greatly improved the next just by revisiting it with a calm state of mind.

So the whip or goad is really just an extension of your arm which is an extension of your own state of mind. Obviously, I would use a goad or whip very differently with a new team than I would with Will and Abe, particularly with an older team like yours that I can see is interested in assessing my driving skills or intentions. But if you want your animals to be calm and focused then you should also be calm and focused.

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