Oxen Whips

[Kevin Cunningham]

This is a great conversation to ease drop in on. Tim the advice you give make a lot of sense to me when I am working with my steers who are considerably younger than Andy’s. What I am finding very interesting is the type of training and adjustment when working an older already established team. Or rather a pair. I am enamored with the concept of a the team being three not just two. This type of relationship style of driving is what makes me so excited about driving oxen (or any other animals). It is the type of thing that forces me into being a better trainer and a better person, to take it to another level. Certainly in a perfect world I would always have, my training plan in place and, I would adhere to the fixed goals, we would work to accomplish the goal, and end on a good note. But often I am in certain situations where the many variable are not fixed. I am tired, the wind isn’t right, I am in the far end of the field, the stars are not aligned, who knows? when the training is not going the way it should. It is these situations that I have to buckle down and stay focused and not let my emotions or my mind get away from me. These hard places make me be a better person because they make it so that I have to control my anger or frustration, or stay hyper aware to help assure my steers fear of something that I don’t get. I have seen glimmers of this concept that I find so incredibly transformative.

“So the whip or goad (or feather duster) is really just an extension of your arm, which is an extension of your own state of mind.”

[Andy Carson]

I tried several sticks/goads with the boys today. My favorite was a simple stick of green willow, maybe 5.5 feet long, and tapering from about an inch in diameter down to maybe 3/8 inch at the thin end. It has a wonderful and immediate feel to it, I can tell exactly how hard I have tapped. It also has a mild curve to it, helps me reach parts of my off ox that are partially blocked by my nigh. It’s got plenty of umph to it if you swing it hard. I am trying my level best to reach my off ox’s legs, but my boys work with their heads so low that I really have to thread a needle to get over there. I often inardertently bump my nigh’s legs in the process, which is counter productive. I would really prefer not the work the head at all, but I don’t feel so bad when using a stick on the forehead. I can place a stick very precisely, much more than something with a lash…

[Baystatetom]

I always used traditional twisted whips, switched to sticks and branches when my steers stepped on and broke my last twisted whip. The problem was I kept dropping them on the ground out in the woods when hooking chains and I always had to turn circles scratching my head “where did I leave that stick now”. I bought a fiberglass stick at the feed store and I have really started to like it. At first it seemed heavy and stiff but I have gotten used to it. I mention all this because it is great at getting my off steers attention when he is running ahead. I just reach over there and tap his horn with it. He hates that! And when I have his attention I bark a order at him and he listens. I have also used buggy whips. I just cut the lash a bit shorter and apply several layers of black electrical tape to it to stiffen it up a bit.
~Tom

[dominiquer60]

This has been a great discussion.

I first learned with a goad on the first two teams that someone was nice enough to let me try out. I had heard from a few people that the twisted ash whip was the best tool. I had both a 4′ ash goad and a used and curved twisted whip made by Ray Ludwig. I felt comfortable using the goad (or a longer riding whip when they were younger) on my steers, but I started having a problem with my near steer when hawing away from the manure pile back onto the road. I had tried once before to use the whip with the lash but ended up frustrated with frustrated steers. Once the problem by the manure pile began I gave the lashed whip another try. I got back behind his shoulder and when my Abe started to back haw and jump the chain, my lash found his hind end in a hurry. Once he realized I could reach much farther with the lash, he was no longer a problem. I still wasn’t very good with the lash, but the extra reach helped eliminate some problem behavior, so I tried to stick with it. I had problems wanting to us the whip stock as a goad at short range and ended up finding the crack in the whip stock that I was warned about upon receiving it. Earlier I had also broken the tip off of my good goad.

So here I was with a shorten goad and an nice lash. An old black boot string and some electrical tape bonded the two together and I have been in love ever since. I have the whop effect when I need it (which is rarely) and I have the flexible range of the lash, I also have a ton of medium range that is not as wimpy as the buggy whip that I also tried at one point. This combination may be non traditional, but I made due with what I had and love the results.

[Tim Harrigan]

You are right Andy, in many ways you just can’t beat a willow branch. Low hanging so they are easy to get and replace, nice and flexible, cut it short for a single, leave it longer for a pair. The simplicity is pure oxen.

@Kevin Cunningham 33343 wrote:

…Certainly in a perfect world I would always have my training plan in place…..adhere to the fixed goals…..work to accomplish the goal…..end on a good note. But often …….many variable are not fixed. I am tired…..wind isn’t right….the stars are not aligned…..the training is not going the way it should….I have to buckle down and stay focused….. not let my emotions or my mind get away……I have to control my anger or frustration….I have seen glimmers of this concept that I find so incredibly transformative….

Kevin, yes, it is good to have a plan with goals, that is what we need and are trained to do in a farming operation. But flexibility and the ability to bend, like a willow branch, become all more important when you are working with, and particularly when training, a team of three. If you get angry or frustrated (we all do) I just encourage you to step down for a minute and ask yourself ‘which member of the team am I really angry and frustrated with? And… why?’

Training a pair of steers is easy compared to training your mind.

[Vicki]

Countymouse, I am going through much the same as you are now with the pair that Hale Farm bought.

I greatly appreciate your conversations with Tim, here, and I am taking it all to heart as I work with these steers. It is challenging me! Even though the steers are big, I suspect mentally they are “young”, not to mention in a new environment with no one they know. In hindsight, I think we may have pushed the steers yesterday past their frustration point, but actually after that they were angels, so I hope it was that we went past their testing our determination point.

Your description of interactions with your ox is exactly on! I must go slower and build a lot of good behavior on simplest things before moving on to “new” commands, and watch for mental tiredness, too. I want to build their confidence and trust.

As for goads as they relate to that “conversation” with your ox that can escalate into fear/naughtyness, I find that a supple red osier dogwood or an ash stick is great. I got a white oak goad common in Maine, the ones they wrap with electrical tape,and it handles like the ash switch. You might want to try one. They have a long buggy whip where I am using their new steers, and it creates the problem you describe–not attention-grabbing enough, or ratcheting into fear mode.

They were trained, yes, but I’m pretty sure they didn’t feel a yoke for many months before being sold. Then they cam to their new location where they were let into a large pasture, and had lots of nice hay thrown over the fence to them for many weeks, without ever being touched or tied.

Countymouse, your oxen can get to the point where all that’s needed is a feather duster, or nothing. Eventually you can practice commanding them without a goad, just waving your hand, or moving your body. The bond can be that powerful. Especially if you start them yourself, but simply with many hours together, the ability to read one another is astonishing.

Working without that foundational bond is going to require my utmost attention, consistency, and wisdom. I’m glad you’re telling us about your progress. I like knowing you are experiencing some of the same challenges with yours as I am with these, and we’re getting other experienced folks to weigh in. Thanks everybody.

[Head yokes]

The traditional ox whip made here in Nova Scotia is made of white ash with a solid butt and split into 12 strands. These 12 strands are twisted into 3 bunches of 3 and then reverse twisted and the remainder 3 single strands fill in between. This whip stock is then covered with leather stitched along the length. A eye is stiched in the top and a lash is attached. The lash is usually twice the length of the stock with the cod line added. The cod line sometimes runs the entire length of the lash to give it more strength. When purchasing a new ox whip they would walk up to a barn or wooden door crack the whip and bury the knot into the wood. If the inbeded knot held the weight of the whip it was a good one. The oldtimers would say some guys could skin an ox with a good whip and I have no reason not to believe them !!!

[Tim Harrigan]

@Vicki 33389 wrote:

… In hindsight, I think we may have pushed the steers yesterday past their frustration point, but actually after that they were angels, so I hope it was that we went past their testing our determination point…

Vicki, this is a really good and perceptive distinction that adds to the subtleties in training a team, particularly one that is a little older. This is a tipping point in many cases where the team is testing your determination, skill and resolve. That is a hump that you need to get over, but if you push it too far it can lead to frustration and even greater resistance from the team. I am not sure if I can offer any guidance where the tipping point is, I guess you have to trust your intuition. Sounds like you got it right.

[Anonymous]

Tim, You were right on the money. My team started to drift toward me and I pressed the but of my whip into the nigh shoulder and he made the adjustment. The nigh steer was lagging behind or letting the off steer get ahead, but pressure from my poke encouraged the nigh steer to correct the situation. I didn’t even sharpen the point, it was blunt.
Thanks for the advise,, now all I have to do is teach everything else.

[oxman]

Hi, folks. The whips mentioned above are our specialty. We in Nova Scotia have all types of ox whips; braided, twisted, plastic, wooden, old, and new. They are advantageous in several ways. They have a longer stock and shorter lash than a bull whip, but also have a shorter stock and longer lash than a horse whip. Maritime ox whips are lithe and efficient. Lashes are fashioned several ways, usually 2 to 2 1/2 times the length of the stock. We may have what you want.

[Carl Russell]

@oxman 34182 wrote:

Hi, folks. The whips mentioned above are our specialty. We in Nova Scotia have all types of ox whips; braided, twisted, plastic, wooden, old, and new. They are advantageous in several ways. They have a longer stock and shorter lash than a bull whip, but also have a shorter stock and longer lash than a horse whip. Maritime ox whips are lithe and efficient. Lashes are fashioned several ways, usually 2 to 2 1/2 times the length of the stock. We may have what you want.

Please post your contact info, or PM or email me. Thanks, Carl

[Tim Harrigan]

Mark, I am glad you are getting them sorted out.

Oxman, do you have any pictures of the whips?

[oxman]

Hi, Tim Harrigan. Yes, we do have many pictures of whips as I am sure you do too, probably.

Carmen.

[oxman]

I am not too good with this site yet, so all bear with me until i get it figured out, especially the PMing.

Carmen

[Anonymous]

I improvised a lash onto a buggy whip and found that the snap has almost more effect than the touch. I don’t like hitting my steers, so is it the snap that motivates or the pain?

I found some web sites that sell, what I believe, is the whip you’ve been talking about. It referred to as a Stock Whip and be ordered in whatever length you’d like.

[URL=”http:// http://www.northernwhipco.com/Whips/stockwhips.htm”%5D

Then sit down for the price. $$$$ Ouch!!

Here is another, much cheaper, but I fear it’s too long. 7′ $18.00
http://www.horseloverz.com/search.php?si=off&ss=stock+whip

[Author]

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