Part-time Logging?

[Gabe Ayers]

Here is another single horse photo.

[Rod]

Nice arch. I copied your plan from your site and was going to build one until I priced out the steel. Whew! Instead I made a rack that fits the back of my WH forecart. Came out pretty good, it fits into the 2″ vertical receivers made for the bench seat. It should work fine for the limited use that I will have for it, mainly firewood.

[Gabe Ayers]

Any device that provides front end suspension of the log will reduce impact on the forest soil, lessen erosion, increase operator safety and increase the tractive capacity of the draft animals. Cheaper is better for equipment for sure. Most of the log arches we have are made from recycled steel with components made from what is available. The key factor is the cantilever of the load in front of the centerline of the axles in order to keep the tongue from rising from the resistance of the log.

Part time logging? Well given the reality of working outdoors year round we only get about 185 days a year anyway, so there are many that would say that is part time logging itself. When it is to wet, to windy or there is falling weather of any kind (snow, hail, sleet) we stay out of the woods. It is a matter of safety for the operator as well as sensitivity to the environmental conditions resulting from the harvesting activities.

The fact that we have diversified activities (other forest products related work and farming) that allow us to be sensitive to weather and ground conditions makes the work superior from an environmental perspective, which is the element of the services that make them better than conventional mechanized extraction.

[Carl Russell]

Biological Woodsman;7616 wrote:

…….Part time logging? Well given the reality of working outdoors year round we only get about 185 days a year anyway, so there are many that would say that is part time logging itself. …..The fact that we have diversified activities (other forest products related work and farming) that allow us to be sensitive to weather and ground conditions makes the work superior from an environmental perspective, which is the element of the services that make them better than conventional mechanized extraction.

Amen, Brother!

Carl

[Tayook]

We went and talked to the retired guy on Friday night. We were there for 3 1/2 hours and only left because little one was giving grandma a hard time: ) It was very informing and interesting. He is 72 and has been driving horses his whole life. He had photo albums of all the horses he’s had over the years. It was awesome! His very first team when he was a kid was a pair of jacks. The only reason he is not still in the woods is because he doesn’t trust himself anymore, says his body just don’t keep up with his mind anymore: ) I was a bit sad for him, I can’t imagine not being able to do what I love so much.

Anyway, he offered to help set us up with everything we need to get started, aside from another saw. He has so much equipment that he no longer uses. He said a lot of it he would just give to use because it is just going to go to waste and he would rather see someone use it. His brother still trains and sells drafts too! It is a total one stop shop if we decide to pursue it. We left very excited. He even offered to allow us to harness and drive one of the teams he still has and come out in the woods with us when we first get started.

The conversation left us with a couple more questions that he couldn’t answer.

1. He mentioned that some log buys require you to have licenses before they will buy from you. Do any of you need licenses to fell and skid logs?

2. What is the ideal size saw to use? We have a Husky 455 Rancher (56cc). It has an 18 inch bar, but can go up to 20.

[OldKat]

Tayook,

I don’t know the answer to your questions, but I do know that I’d take the old timer up on his offer in a heartbeat if I were really interested in going into that business.

Jason, Carl and others that are knowledgeable about that subject can give you more specific advice than I can, but I know that it is unllikely you will ever get that sweet of an offer again.

I do think if I were to go into that business I would invest in one of the schools that are available on safe working practices, efficient ways to do things etc, etc. You don’t want go out and get hurt right off the bat because you don’t know the safety rules, likewise I bet you could go work your posterior off and have little to show for it if you don’t learn the “smarter, not harder” rules of working the woods.

Please let us know how it comes out for you. Oh, and I passed on a somewhat similar opportunity (different field though) when I was probably 24 or 25 yeras old. Possibly THE BIGGEST MISTAKE I EVER MADE. 🙁 At least study this deal and know all the pro’s and con’s before you decide which way you will go.

Good luck! I like stories like this.

[Carl Russell]

I have responded in blue below, Carl

Tayook;7739 wrote:

……Anyway, he offered to help set us up with everything we need to get started, aside from another saw. He has so much equipment that he no longer uses. He said a lot of it he would just give to use because it is just going to go to waste and he would rather see someone use it. His brother still trains and sells drafts too! It is a total one stop shop if we decide to pursue it. We left very excited. He even offered to allow us to harness and drive one of the teams he still has and come out in the woods with us when we first get started.

This sounds like a good opportunity to me. It will be good to get his experience to guide you. Just make sure the equipment is sound, and without being disrespectful, remember that his will not be the “only” way to do things. But, there is no replacement for a lifetime of experience, and they just aren’t making those guys anymore, so don’t pass up the chance to get his mentoring while you can.

The conversation left us with a couple more questions that he couldn’t answer.

1. He mentioned that some log buys require you to have licenses before they will buy from you. Do any of you need licenses to fell and skid logs?

Some markets are setting these guidelines. I’m not in your area, so I don’t know. Check with county foresters, or state foresters to get some contact info on local and regional markets. I don’t think you will need anything to cut and sell wood.

2. What is the ideal size saw to use? We have a Husky 455 Rancher (56cc). It has an 18 inch bar, but can go up to 20.

The 455 is a weekend warrior saw. Husky has two model lines, one for the occasional user, one for the professional. Although 56cc is not a small saw, it is on the small size for production work like firewood. Certainly I would not run more than a 16″ bar on it, to maximize the power to chain ratio. My preference is a saw in the 60-70cc range (I’m not up to speed on the new model numbers) because they can run 18-20″ bars, are powerful for felling, light enough for limbing, and can handle the work of blocking wood. The 455 would probably work fine as a felling and limbing saw with 16″ bar, because it is light, and would have plenty of power with less chain, and with large trees, boring in from both sides, you can cut a pretty big tree, I just would not base my horse logging operation on that saw. Husky makes a professional model of that size saw, and don’t let a salesman try to put a long bar on your saw, they know people think the bar length has to do with how big the saw is, so more times than not they end up with a big bar on a small saw. The saw will work best with high chain speed, and it will be easier to work with. Carl

[Carl Russell]

Rod;7488 wrote:

Nice arch. I copied your plan from your site and was going to build one until I priced out the steel. Whew! Instead I made a rack that fits the back of my WH forecart. Came out pretty good, it fits into the 2″ vertical receivers made for the bench seat. It should work fine for the limited use that I will have for it, mainly firewood.

Rod, I just saw the photos of your rack. You are a fantastic fabricator. I just want to give you a heads up that the draft point (where the evener attaches) should be level with the hitch point (where the chains attach), otherwise the load will lift the pole up, and may tip you off the back. If you look closely at other logging arch designs you will see this feature. It is one of the difficulties of designing something that will give lift to the log without causing interference when getting on and off. I will also make comments on the photos in case you miss it here.

Carl

[Rod]

Hi Carl

Thanks for the tip. I can adjust that with my pole as I will likely be using it with my oxen anyway and can make a vertical offset steel pole to use with it.
BTW I am the idea man and designer and have a young part time helper who loves to weld with my welder. He puts my ideas together for me.

[Jim Ostergard]

I agree with Carl on saw size. I currently use a Sthil 361 with a 20″ bar as my most everyday say and also a Stihl 441 as my yard saw or when I’m working in big wood. Had to give up the much loved 044 because without the compression release it would sometimes try and take my arm right out of the socket on the start.
Take a saw course for sure, there is much to learn and directional felling will save you a lot of frustration and work especially when using animals to log.
Good luck.

[near horse]

I just want to give you a heads up that the draft point (where the evener attaches) should be level with the hitch point (where the chains attach),

Hey Carl,

I must be about as dense as black locust but “the hitch point where the chains attach” refers to the log chain attaching to the cart. Right?

[Carl Russell]

Yes there must be a straight line pull from the horses to the point where the weight of the logs is attached to be most efficient.

Carl

[lancek]

the point on the peavey was origanly used for positioning log while driving down the river during the days that they moved logs to market in that maner. the hook was used to roll the log and the point was used to push the log and purswade the ocasional slow poke to move faster!
A cant hook was origanly designed to roll logs on a sawmill and was taken on by the loggers as they seen that it took less efort to move a log this way

[Robert MoonShadow]

Lancek ~ What do you mean “used to do”? 150 miles north of me, on the St Maries & St. Joe Rivers, they still do use the rivers to float logs to Lake Ceour d’Alene & onto to the landings at the headwaters of the Spokane River. Still use guys out there on the logs, too. Not very many, anymore, but enough to make sure the boaters don’t catch a log in their laps.

[kiwiloggr]

Im new to horse logging but a friend and i built a single horse arch the other day it took a bit of time, some scrap steel and a few welding rods works great and man does it make the job easier.you can check it out on utube horselogging nz.It also has a slide lift to lift log off ground when horse moves foward love it.Hope it helps

[Author]

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