Poor soil

[Tim Harrigan]

@dlskidmore 27676 wrote:

So you wouldn’t use it as fert around the row crops? I thought the corn at least would benefit from direct application…..

….You mention red and crimson clover, any reason to choose that over white? I think white is what I found available last I looked locally. I can mail order if there’s a good reason to do so.

Yes, there would be some benefit to mulching the row crops with manure. If you will be working that into the soil as some point think of what your tillage capabilities are in that regard and match the mulch with your ability to incorporate it.

White clover would be fine if that is what you have, I like red and crimson because they root deeper and in my experience tend to yield better.

[Tim Harrigan]

@dlskidmore 27677 wrote:

Back to your tillage point, you’re saying don’t till to work in manure, add manure to match existing till? No ammendment between now and when I do fall turn-under?

This year is getting heavy tillage. One pass with the plow when it was too wet, and 1-2 passes with a rototiller. This fall I’m going to till the crops under and try to put in a hill/furrow while I’m at it to encourage earlier spring drainage.

I’ve handled shale softer than the clay lumps coming out of this soil. It should improve as it gets more organics in it. It’s already vastly improved where the sod got torn up well. The single-pass tillage areas are still very difficult to hand dig in, the double-pass areas are nice to dig, but still have some fist sized lumps in it, so it’s not overpulverized. I am limited by volunteer help with the plowing, and not having my own equiptment to do it exactly how I want.

I think I suggested no more tillage than necessary. I am not suggesting a series of operations, think of your farming system. There is no harm in using a mulch or cover crop throughout the growing season, just make sure what you have is compatible with your ability to manage it. If you lay down a heavy straw mulch that you plan to work in, and your tillage is with a rotor tiller, I call that a long day.

Raised beds are a good way to manage poorly drained soils, it would be nice to have a lister or other tools to help form those. If you do it by hand, that would also be a long day.

I guess I don’t need to convince you that plowing wet soil is a step backwards. Good luck with your volunteer help. There is a large garden near here, seems to be some type of community project. Often on a Saturday morning I will see a big group of folks busy as can be planting and tilling the soil. By mid-summer the ragweed will be head high.

[dlskidmore]

@Tim Harrigan 27696 wrote:

Raised beds are a good way to manage poorly drained soils, it would be nice to have a lister or other tools to help form those. If you do it by hand, that would also be a long day.

I’m gonna try renting a BCS rotary plow, although it seems they’re not commonly in stock and not commonly rented, so that may be a pipe dream. If I can get the rotary plow I’ll also be using it to dig some edge drainage, try to get the water running off to the neighboring wet land. There’s a fellow with a used one if I can talk hubby into buying equiptment. The volunteer with the tractor does have a plow that could manage it, but not much in the way of skill with it. We have formed some shallow raised beds by hand in areas getting perenial transplants, since we won’t be digging those under later.

@Tim Harrigan 27696 wrote:

Good luck with your volunteer help. There is a large garden near here, seems to be some type of community project. Often on a Saturday morning I will see a big group of folks busy as can be planting and tilling the soil. By mid-summer the ragweed will be head high.

I guess I should count my blessings that I’m doing it mostly myself. Getting stuck hoeing alone what 30 volunteers planted might be too much.

Thank-you so much for helping me with my newbie questions. I’ll have two years of practice with this community garden before I go up in scale again with my own place. I’ve only done small-scale or not in charge before this. I know I have a lot to learn!

[Robert MoonShadow]

Found a better deal on urine {something I never thought I’d say…}
Bear urine = 16 oz. for $8 + S & H.
http://www.wildlifecontrolsupplies.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=NWS001&Product_Code=NWSBEAR&Category_Code=
Have shot them an email to find out what they mean by “economy” and “standard” shipping (besides a big difference in cost).
The deer here are finally getting used to the cougar urine, and are starting to ignore it….time to switch to bear. One fat doe, and of course, she topped my brandwine tomatoes (bypassing 4 other types – must prefer the heritage strains to the hybrids).

[near horse]

@Robert MoonShadow 27811 wrote:

Found a better deal on urine {something I never thought I’d say…}
Bear urine = 16 oz. for $8 + S & H.
http://www.wildlifecontrolsupplies.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=NWS001&Product_Code=NWSBEAR&Category_Code=
Have shot them an email to find out what they mean by “economy” and “standard” shipping (besides a big difference in cost).
The deer here are finally getting used to the cougar urine, and are starting to ignore it….time to switch to bear. One fat doe, and of course, she topped my brandwine tomatoes (bypassing 4 other types – must prefer the heritage strains to the hybrids).

Standard = bear urine in a bottle; Economy = bear urine still in bear!

[mitchmaine]

@near horse 27812 wrote:

Standard = bear urine in a bottle; Economy = bear urine still in bear!

geoff, don’t the deer out there ever suffer from lead poisoning?

mitch

[Robert MoonShadow]

Geoff ~ You’re too funny! Good way to start the day – laughing! Thanks! Makes me wonder just how they go about getting the critter to pee in those little bottles?!? 😮
Mitch ~ Sure – in fact around here, it’s not known as deer hunting. However, where my gardens are located are along the Salmon river, and now that the heat is here, within 2 weeks, the only thing green will be lawns and gardens…and mine are conveniently located next to water = can you say “deer buffet”? So, after fighting them all season, my motto for deer hunting is: ‘I feed them all summer…now they can feed me all winter!’

[Anonymous]

Would it be too late by the time hes through plowing and discing it to sow some rye into it. If not, that would make some great green manure plow down next spring.

[dlskidmore]

@Farmallb 29652 wrote:

Would it be too late by the time hes through plowing and discing it to sow some rye into it. If not, that would make some great green manure plow down next spring.

According to our local cooperative extension, I have until the first week of november to put in winter wheat, but it’s too late for anything else. I’m trying to get a hold of the guy with the tractor and schedule a day for us to add manure and till it under. I’d like to sow winter wheat on top of that, but having trouble finding a local supplier. Found an online place that has it, but I prefer not to ship all the way across the country. Local places will be more likely to have seed suited to my climate.

[dlskidmore]

I really want the tractor to hill/furrow this land this fall. We were not able to make significant improvement in the drainage situation that prevented us from planting in a timely manner last spring, and hill/furrow might give us a chance to hand-plant the hills while the furrows are still wet.

We tried digging a dry well, but with the available equiptment didn’t get below the clay layer to anything that drains. I’ve now got test holes full of water… The tractor guy is thinking of purchasing some more attachments in the spring to increase our ability to dig deeper, we shall see. The topography is against us, the highway berm keeps the water from going downhill as it should.

[dlskidmore]

Ga…

The tractor guy overbooked himself. I might try plan B, the landscaper with unknown resources, or just let the clover be all we add to the soil this year. The harvest festival folks threw out the corn stalks when they were done with them, hopefully I can get through to the archery ministry that we want their old straw when they’re done with it.

[dlskidmore]

In a couple years I’ll at least have my little BCS if not a team of oxen, and not be dependant on others as much.

[Jay]

Another thing that often helps, on most any soil is using leaves for mulch. We use them on lots of plants, cuts down on weeding, holds moisture, adds fertility…. helps with water holding capacity in sand or porousness with clay. Good Luck. Jay

[dlskidmore]

@Horsepower51 29666 wrote:

using leaves for mulch

Yep. We do that in our home garden. Our tree cover to garden size is such that I can completely bed it down, and suppress weeds with it. In the spring when I’m ready to cultivate I rake back the half-rotted stuff, pile it to compost the rest of the way, and put down straw for summer mulch.

[Author]

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