Priorities in training

[dlskidmore]

@Countymouse 18857 wrote:

It’s hard to imagine how one would even provide exercise for an animal without some degree of training and work.

Agreed. Grooming is likewise. There is no way I could properly groom even my 129 lb dog without training. These are not layers to be added one at a time to the animal, but layers of understanding for the handler. One can not go straight to the animal training without first understanding the other layers. All must be accomplished to be successful. (Well, molding is optional, there’s always capture and shaping if you’re good at that method…)

A puppy has a strong biological need for exercise, and although I train proper leash walking while I exercise the puppy, I also don’t expect any other training in the way of grooming activities or position changes to occur until after this biological need is met.

A dog has a strong emotional need for leadership, and I can’t begin to train near fear objects until we have established a leader-follower relationship in neutral circumstances.

Maybe I’m the best Behavior Modification practitioner in the world, but if I don’t know that raisins are poisonous to dogs, I might make a terrible mistake in our first session.

etc…

[Donn Hewes]

I must say I find this thread somewhat confusing. In the original post you suggested two different approaches, one to learn from a mentor; and the other to learn about the working relationship in layers. I don’t understand what the one has to do with the other and why a good mentor can’t discuss these things as they fit into what you are doing. What about learning about the animal it’s self. Anatomy, physiology, senses, and how all those relate to social groups. Hopefully a mentor will lead you to some of those things, or a good book that might fill in some of those blanks.

The opposite of working with a mentor is learning on your own. Many of us have done a lot of that and I don’t think most of us would try to stop anyone who choose that as a personal preference. Many people would like more mentoring but find it hard to find and connect with. An equally large number would say that mentoring in general will help most people find safe and productive beginnings in working with draft animals.

I think all those things are important, but I also am a simple person that likes to know what a person really wants to do. If you really want to work with draft animals you should start today, and never stop. Don’t just read about it, put a harness on.

[mother katherine]

If you look in a number of these threads, a variety of books are mentioned as resources and used by the teamsters to undergird their knowledge and practice. There are place and need for both hands on and theory foundation. I went to nursing school and we had oodles of book work – but we had the clinical work at the same time to practice the concepts and work out our own variants of the material with the individual patients. The theory was nothing without the concomitant person to person work. The hands on was nothing without the underlying theory. Believe me, there were/are plenty of people who suck at any job because they can’t mesh the two.
Again, I don’t think the book learning is at issue here. Many of the people who learned their craft of teamstering have as much theory as any book – they just learned it from a mentor instead of off a page as they grew up and worked under supervision.
oxnun

[Vicki]

This has been a great discussion. I tend to think like the original poster; I instinctively “layer” steps whether I’m learning or teaching, that’s how my mind works. I always try to get “head knowledge” first, then integrate it into action. Tim is correct–that what is NOT in the books is as important as what is; and as mother katherine says also, integration is the key to success.
The first time I tried to drive oxen, I knew nothing about cattle in general, and was quite a failure. I am more “theory” oriented by nature, not “instinctive” about working animals, so watching good mentors is vital to illustrate the theory and bridge the gap from concept to action.
With my own cattle, I went through the “layers”, though many of them occur simultaneously, and have achieved a level of “success” in that we can get some things done.
When I begin to mentor someone, I begin at those basic layers, helping the person to understand the animal and then using the understanding to lead the animal.
I appreciate Carl’s emphasis on leadership, because he made me realize that I need to strengthen this aspect in my work with animals.

[dlskidmore]

@Donn Hewes 18874 wrote:

I must say I find this thread somewhat confusing. In the original post you suggested two different approaches, one to learn from a mentor; and the other to learn about the working relationship in layers. I don’t understand what the one has to do with the other and why a good mentor can’t discuss these things as they fit into what you are doing.

The point was not that this style of learning is in opposition from learning from a mentor, but that many of these layers can be book-learned. There are a few steps that are better learned from an advisor, such as fitting equipment properly.

@mother katherine 18878 wrote:

If you look in a number of these threads, a variety of books are mentioned as resources and used by the teamsters to undergird their knowledge and practice.

I’ll have to look around some more for those. I did see your recomendation for Oxen: A Teamster’s Guide

Donn Hewes wrote:

I think all those things are important, but I also am a simple person that likes to know what a person really wants to do. If you really want to work with draft animals you should start today, and never stop. Don’t just read about it, put a harness on.

Well, my Great Dane has a harness, and we should get out more. She could use the exercise. Horses or Oxen will have to wait until we have some pasture to keep them on.

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