Pulling power

[Rod]

Anyone care to comment on the relative pulling power of three 1200 lb. Halflingers verses two 1800 lb. work horses?

[Carl Russell]

What you get out of animals has a lot to do with what you expect from them. The result has more to do with the teamster than with the size and number of animals.

Carl

[Donn Hewes]

I agree with Carl that there is a lot to learn about when an animal is working hard and when it isn’t. Also training them to work a little harder when asked takes time and experience. I have worked Halflingers, Percherons, Belgians and mules in the last few years. I have mixed them all together when I felt like it. The Halflingers are close to 30 y/o now and semi retired but in the past they pulled the same mowing machines as the horses. They would not mow as many acres in a day, or spread as many loads of compost as the bigger younger horses, but they certainly held up their end. In a general way I think a team of three Halflingers will do everything a team of horses will do. Remember to think about how they will hold back the load, not just pull it. Donn

[Rod]

One reason I asked is I heard at the field days oxen group that two oxen will pull more than twice the load that a single ox will. Something about working together I guess. I know it depends on the teamster and the teams but I assumed all the factors being equal in my question although I didn’t write it.

Their is a physical limit as to what a horse or team can pull. I see it with my horses especially when I drive a single. Their are loads and places where he can just about make it up the hill. I have been thinking about adding another Halflinger for three up to haul manure and some of the other harder jobs and wondered if doing so would equal the pulling power of a regular sized team for those instances.

[Kristin]

One reason I asked is I heard at the field days oxen group that two oxen will pull more than twice the load that a single ox will. Something about working together I guess.

Interesting. I’ve heard the opposite, that adding a second horse will give you not quite twice the power, and adding a third will add a bit less than a third more power, etc. I never questioned why, though. Anyone have an answer?

-Kristin

[Neil Dimmock]

How about tying on to my double tree and find out!
there just ponies not work horses dont matter how much some one likes them there still ponys and nothing looks worse then some one bulling a pair of ponys in to pulling a load to big for them
Neil

[Rod]

My unscientific observation with my team is this.

My fore cart with myself on it weigh about 550 to 600Lbs (I am 260Lbs.) and my single Halflinger has a hard time pulling it up one of my steeper grades.

My team of Halflingers however will pull a wagon load of people (1500 + Lbs. ) up the same grade with much less strain and effort.

That’s what made me think that the multiple effect might be more than twice the single.

Neil. I would love to see that experiment.

[Carl Russell]

The fact of the matter is that it is not a straight line mathematical formula.

I had a horse once whose heart would bust out of his chest if he couldn’t move something. He was a calm horse that loved to pull logs. By himself he could pull almost as much as I could pull with the team.But he couldn’t handle the manure spreader by himself, the way the team could.

I also had a pair of cattle that I took to the fair several times. A couple of times I tried to pull concrete with them, and could hardly get them past the first load. I was out of my element. In the ten years I worked them in the woods, there was never a tree (no matter how big) that I couldn’t get to the landing. I knew how the lay of the land could help me, and the advantages I could get from certain techniques, or pieces of equipment.

There is a big difference between the mathematical weight to power ratio, and the art of getting work done with animals. I would question whether it would be worth keeping a third horse around, just for those instances where you might need it.

Those Haflingers should have plenty of get-up in them, just go light and go often. Learn how they work in different areas on your farm, and modify your approach accordingly.

It may be obvious, but I think you may just be finding out what their limitations are, and still haven’t quite down-sized your expectations. It took me a long time before I was brave enough to off-load logs, or manure when the load was too big.

It takes time and patience to condition a team, and possibly more of the same to condition your own response and expectations.

Carl

[Crabapple Farm]

Myself, I’ve been wondering about the comparative efficiencies of a one horse 4 foot mower and a two horse six footer. Another instance of the “not a straight line” phenomenon. Not having tried out our new one horse mower yet, and so not knowing how hard of a load it is, I don’t know if a four foot mower makes the one work harder than a standard team mower. One theory I have is that no manufacturers expected anyone to put up serious hay with one horse, and so it was designed for small jobs, not all day mowing.

It’s possible with oxen that the team yoke, being a more solid point to push against than a single yoke, encourages the oxen to lean into it more strongly. With a single neck yoke, I’ve seen a little bit of a see-saw effect that could diminish effective power. Horse harness doesn’t change, however, depending on the number of animals, so that shouldn’t be an issue.

[Gabe Ayers]

I have been meaning to respond to this question of pound for pound pulling power. It is a rainy morning in Appalachia so this is the time. We will reset our team today, in the barn….

I started out pulling ponies in the early seventies. There is no question from my experience of pulling horses for about forty years now that the ponies will/can pull more pound for pound than the larger horses.

It is still a matter of conditioning, training, breed characteristics and the skill of the operator.

A real pulling horse is a matter of the heart to try by the individual be it a pony or horse.

I wanted to support this position of being a member of this culture community by posting a bill board now standing outside of a town in our region. Please excuse any unintended advertising here, but know that this cultural practice is a powerful public draw even in the south….

I can’t figure out how to do it in the body of this message as I currently don’t store any images on any server other than my PC. So go to the photo pages and take a look at the image under favorite photos….

Given the reality of working with horses in the woods daily I have settled on working heavy horses, as they can efficiently move large logs with less work by me as the person committed to animal husbandry. For start up folks or smaller operations, or folks that don’t mind the multiple hitching, the ponies could work well. They can be super athletes.

I will post a couple of other pulling photos on the photo page. I have to compress them for quick loading and acceptance on this site.

[Gabe Ayers]

Note, go to the photo page and check out the latest pull results from the billoboard photo posted earlier.

To follow up on the comment by Neil about hooking on to his double tree and finding out.

I have been pulling horses for thirty years or so and have won state fairs, county fairs and a few pulls in between over the years. So I am speaking from some considerable experience. This also means we have lost more than we have won…but still have participated and seen some of the best over the years and I started pulling for fun – with ponies…having my first team of large ponies in 1972.

Ponies – good well trained and conditioned ponies can pull three times their weight from a dead stand still on a stone boat. Horses generally can pull around twice their weight.

About the offer to hook double tree to double tree, it reminds me of street racing for title to title, winner keeps the others vehicle…. I have consistently had as good a horses as anyone I have seen out there over these years and I know there are some pony pullers in the northeast that despite what we may think of them or their methods, that pound for pound I would not hook my horses to their double tree. I wouldn’t want to loose my horses and I suspect the same result in a given circumstance would happen to anyone with a heavy horse versus the same weight in real pulling ponies….

I am with Neil though, I want to work my heavy horses for many reasons and all in all they are an easy choice for anyone doing serious consistent work in the fields or forest. Disposition is the a clear advantage for the heavy horses, not to mention the shear weight and comfort of their abilities at most task….
but overall pound for pound pulling….the ponies are stouter…. fact.

[OldKat]

I’ve only ever seen a few teams of the pony type drafters in my area, so I had kind of wondered about their relative pulling power. They look plenty stout, I’ll grant you that.

I did know of a guy that had a similar question about full sized drafters vs. about a 36 hp Kubota tractor. Several years ago he was discing with his Percherons. I think he was hitched about 4 or 5 strong, but maybe he was at 6. No more than that, because he had 7 head total. Anyway, his guys were struggling with the disc so he unhitched and hooked to the Kubota. He found that it was bogging it down just about like it had the horses. So he harnessed the blacks back up and threw in one more. He said they “walked away” with the disc. Don’t know what size disc he was talking about, but I do know that his place was what we call a “sugar loaf” sand (meaning about the texture of granular sugar).

I have no reason to doubt this guy, because he seemed to be a straight up kind of a person. Did find it surprising though.

[J-L]

For the work I do a 1200-1500 lb is enough. I’ve worked saddle horses on the feed trail and they work fine. Small horses/mules can do a lot of work. But at some point with the lighter animals you flat run out of traction. That extra 200-600 lb per head can mean the difference when getting a load started in bad footing.
Having said that, I have had a few big horses that didn’t like to work all that well and some little ones with loads of heart. I agree that it’s up to the individual animal and the guy on the end of the lines.

[Neil Dimmock]

3 times there weight is still nothing twice a ton is a good start!
Neil

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