Raising Pigs

[jac]

Governmental common sense seems to be lacking both sides of the Atlantic nowadays.. As Bivol says the EU has some of the most stupid rules.. Farm kids are forbidden to ride on tractors till the age of 16.. I for one would want my child where I know she would be safe.. in the cab !!! I remember as a child {8ish} being sent round to fetch grandfather for dinner. He was in the barn bruising barley and the tractor was at the door with the canvas belt going in the door to the bruiser.. I well remember walking sideways through the gap with the belt dancing before me at eye level, to tell him to go to the house… My point is that my grandmother knew he was bruising but still sent me to get him. It was a foregone conclusion that I knew the dangers and she in no way thought she was doing any wrong to her grandson.. I know there is a lot of deaths on farms even today but I agree that children need to be allowed to develope and the nanny state is not the answer.. And as far as food production goes for the small farmer providing meat and eggs to friends and family.. Ive been getting good meat from a friend for years now with no adverse effects{some might disagree:D}.. Again humans need exposed to a certain amount of germs anyway, and I think this is whats wrong with a big percentage of the human race.. a decline in natural immunity brought on by over clean food…I dont mean dirty food.. you guys know what I mean..
John

[Roscoe]

@jac 17050 wrote:

Governmental common sense seems to be lacking both sides of the Atlantic nowadays.. As Bivol says the EU has some of the most stupid rules..
Again humans need exposed to a certain amount of germs anyway, and I think this is whats wrong with a big percentage of the human race.. a decline in natural immunity brought on by over clean food…I dont mean dirty food.. you guys know what I mean..
John

John, I totally agree with you!
I know both sides of the atlantic, I’m since a year here in Alberta, running a Goverment aproved slaughterhouse and butchershop. I waste a lot of time dealing with the Goverment and the inspectors!

I know what you mean with the natural immunity, but I made my experience with Farmer und especially Hunter: We have 2 locations, in the slaughterhouse we do only inspected meat, in the shop we do custom processing of wildgame and homekills too. Most Farmer and Hunter do a good/ acceptable job, but some bring ugly, dirty, half rotten stuff in, then they think we can make some good sausage out of this shit…

[jac]

Hey Roscoe would you believe we had a case in the news over here regarding a family butcher that had been making and selling sausages in his shop for generations. He lived in Wales and the product was called Welsh Dragon Sausages…. Enter trading standard officers and said “you cant call them that as you cant prove they contain…. you’ll love this…. dragon meat !!!!!:eek: The butcher tried to fight it but was over ruled.. you couldnt make it up…
John

[bivol]

@mitchmaine 17036 wrote:

bivol, i don’t think anyone in the gov’t (i.e. insurance companies) cares if you kill yourself, they just don’t want to have to care for you (spend money) if you live through the event. we have to get rid of insurance companies. if you think this is a free country, try riding on the roof of the bus with your chicken.

bout health care, we had a minister of health care, a doctor btw, who normally went abroad to treat himself, and got back. no scandal, ofcourse. he would have laughed at your face if you would have told him to resign.
so much about health care….

people today are told what to and what not to do, but even if that wasn’t so, i firmly believe that people know the line when something becomes too dangerous and don’t cross it. and they learn their children as well.

i used to go about on a bicycle around the city, and in the center where trams pass in the paved streets, i regularly used to grab a tram by the side and be pulled. i would grab it when it would be still, and as soon as it would begin to slow down, i’d let go and steer away and continue driving on my own.

and no, i didn’t wear a helmet.

BUT, i had a few rules:
1. always grab near the end, so if i stumble, i won’t fall under it
2. never be towed when another tram or car is behind
3. never be towed where i know there are bumpy roads

so people obviously make rules even when not regulated by the state, only giving them more freedom.

i mean, what kind of freedom is to put a paper in a box once every four years (with the same result!), when i can’t even bake rakija or kill a pig in my back yard? sure, standards have to be followed, and they will, but to forbid it entirely, that’s not good!

like when Romania entered EU, their government banned horse carts form the roads, and Romanian peasants depend on the horse carts. the government claimed horse carts are a cause of 10% of traffic accidents, but they failed to notice it was the cars that drove too fast. also, they obviously ignored that in America there is separate regulation of road speed for places with lots of horse carts, like where Amish live.

unfortunately, were more jepardized be our governments’s incompetence and wish to be “A greater catholic than the Pope”, than from the eu regulations.

this hyperregulation actually comes from the EU beaureaucracy, which is not only not elected by the public, but also, doesn’t have anything to do so it splurts out rediculous legislature, like “only the cucumbers of xxx size are to be considered and sold under cucumbers, all others can’t be sold.”

doesn’t it remind one of shutting a child away with the excuse “it’s for your protection”, and praying on his inheritance? sure does to me….

[CharlyBonifaz]

this hyperregulation actually comes from the EU beaureaucracy,

I always claim, we sent whomever we couldn’t use here to Brussels, now they turn back on us 😮
Bivol, you’re not alone in this……if it weren’t so bad, one could laugh about it

[Roscoe]

Do you guys know, why we have less and less Farmer here? They needs all for the Farmer Sausage!:D:D:D

[bivol]

@CharlyBonifaz 17070 wrote:

I always claim, we sent whomever we couldn’t use here to Brussels, now they turn back on us 😮
Bivol, you’re not alone in this……if it weren’t so bad, one could laugh about it

thanks Elke!

i’m glad other people share out opinions! whenever someone here wants to point at potentially negative sides of joining, he is always silenced for breeching the “goal doctrine”! needless to say any remotelly constructive debate about EU membership was never led, they desperately need the masses to stay stupid, because they’re smart enough to know you can’t manipulate smart people as you wish!

it’s funny, the naivety of people here who honestly think all their problems will be solved just by entering!
it’s just too funny!!

it’s still not that bad, since the entire legislature isn’t synchronized yet, but unfortunately we have the benefit of “particulary dim-witted” politicians, or at least more than usual in older democracies… luckily they have something better to do right now, like saving the country from the greek scenario…ney, saving themselves….

one good thing is there though, anti-GMO laws. our politicians are like a yubox; insert a coin, and they play what you click! luckily there’s s the EU (anti)GMO law, no insign thing, but that’s it… no other.

it was originally a thread about pigs, and i’ve dirtied it with politics!
i’m sorry!

[bivol]

back to pig bussiness;
i guess it’s a legal issue. now, my own legal system is quite different, but i’ll try to help, maybe we think of some good idea. the point with interpreting laws is that one can’t add or take away something that is(n’t) in the law.
while interpretation in the spirit of the law (common to the common law countries) may widen the law effect a bit, it can’t be streched beyond what says in the text.

i’v seen some good ideas so far, mine is similar; it’s all about getting AROUND the law, not through it, and testing just how far you can go, IF it’s worth it, i mean if there isn’t TOO MUCH beareauraucracy and costs at one end or punishment on the other…

i particulary like like Domeniquer’s idea; if there’s about raising, what does “raising” define? taking care of the animal? meaning personally? or by a payed person? how long?
theoretically they can “buy” pigs on your farm, and you can “raise” them for xxx family a few days by them delegating the care to you, like in a contract. in a sense they own the pig, but delegate you to take care of them. raising? could be… :confused:

does it say for home consumption? what would mean a pig i own gets consumed by me doesn’t have to pass the control. it doesn’t say that pig has to live on my property, and be personally looked after by me…

or bartering would be a good idea; but bartering for the whole thing; pigs and kill. the costumers do a (fictional) bussiness of bartering, say, gasoline, for the pigs, and later they buy their gasoline off you, for cash ofcourse!

just a few ideas, but since i’m not familiar with common law, i can’t help much.

[bivol]

does it say”for my family”? that exact phrase?

because that would mean that, even if you give someone else the task of caring for pigs (say, a farmer), as long as they are in your legal possession(you owner), and you intend to use them as your food, it doesn’t matter where or by whom they are raised.

just idea though!

be sure to check out the exact phrase, it all about that, law avoidance!:D

[jac]

Hey Bivol I like the law “avoidance”:D .. is it legal to give pork away ?? if so then give it away with a very expensive plastic bag to carry it home in:D.. Really only kidding..
John

[Roscoe]

@Bivol: You could sell the living Pigs to your costumer, and then you can processing the pigs for a service charge.

[jen judkins]

Thanks for the thoughts, everyone. Pigs arrive next week. Here’s how I decided to do it:

I have sold all the pigs up front (except the one I raise for myself) for a flat rate which will include purchase of a piglet, feed and ‘board’ for 6 months and delivery to the custom butcher. The pigs will be legally owned by their consumer, so to speak :rolleyes:. I’m pretty confident that this plan falls on the proper side of the law, as long as I keep good records. Its a small operation, so I doubt we will get any media attention.

[Author]

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