re on sweedish harness

[Ron]

Hi all
I have read the back discussion on Swedish harness and I have just a couple of questions
more if I can. I understand from reading that there was a lot of research and innovations a few years ago. Was the pole and shaft design a new innovation or the continuation of an existing Swedish design? The second part to that question, I can see how the short tongue would be an advantage to turning in tight space in the bush but does it have an equal ability to brake or hold a heary load back on an incline as a North American style pole and britching?
Hope this question is of interest?
Ron

[Will Stephens]

Good question. I am interested in an answer to this also.
Will

[Donn Hewes]

Hi Ron, I hope Carl R or Morgan or someone else will respond here. I have used the shafts a time or two. I am not sure of a pole or tongue design for a team? For the single horse hooking in to a short pair of shafts, they seem like a traditional method to me? They are stable, strong, and secure. They go forward, back, and stop as well as other shaft systems in my estimation.

[CharlyBonifaz]

but does it have an equal ability to brake or hold a heary load back on an incline as a North American style pole and britching?

http://tarnsjogarveri.com/wip/horse_old/downloads/standard_for_arbetsselar_hs.pdf
this link is for a swedish working harness; scrolling down to page 5 will show the britchen; I think it is a very reliable system …

[Ron]

Hi all
I may not have described the pole system very well. Each horse has a set of short shafts
on the inside shaft is what appears like a ring fitted into a slide allowing some forward
and backward motion along the shaft. This ring on the slide it attached to a short tongue which appears to be about four feet maybe five feet long. The tongue stops the wagon, steers, and backs up by way of being attached to the tongue by this ring and slide. I have had good use of shafts in the past but I have never used two shafts to steer a short pole with. It is an interesting design which gives food for thought and maybe innovation if it worked as well as North American/ English style poles?
Ron McCoy

[Donn Hewes]

I will be interested to hear if anyone responds, but i don’t know of anyone state side that has worked much with the team system of two set of shafts? maybe Carl can direct Morgan or someone else to fill us in. The horse on the new homepage photo is mine, and even though she has working in shaft maybe thirty minutes once before, she did not mind this set up, in the road, or up or down hills. I think most state side have been developing a method to incorporate the connections to a standard D ring harness, so you could use your North American single and team equipment as well as the short shaft systems.

[Carl Russell]

I cannot answer the question about design updates being new or continuing on historical precedent, but I can say that the short shafts are very effective.

I haven’t used them in a team set up, but as far a as I can see, there is no difference in that situation, there are just two sets.

One major difference between the Swedish shaft and American shaft system is that the Swedish style are also traces, and therefore are attached to a singletree. As such they are not fixed. They shift for and aft, and side to side. This gives the horse the ability to turn its body off line without being restricted by the shafts. It also must be like this to keep draft evenly weighted on the shoulder as the horse is turning.

As far as holding back, or backing, the short shafts work great, when using a Swedish harness, or D-ring with the draft attachment. Because the shaft is a trace it comes to draft at an appropriate angle, as opposed to the conventional American design with shafts high and parallel to the ground. The Swedish design seems to have draft-appropriate leverage against the load. He horses appear to be quite comfortable handling the weight against their britchen.

Anecdotally, I find my horses to be very comfortable with this setup. I am not prepare to say that it is better, but it has advantages that encourage me to look for ways to use the deign more often. I have worked myself, and seen many others working with misaligned and oddly variable setups, and still work gets done, so trying to rate this seems futile.

My main concern with bringing Swedish equipment to US is in helping people use existing American harnessing conventions. It has been a snap to use the D-ring harness, which is very similar to the Swedish harness. The draft attachment tongues just clip into the D-ring at the rear side strap attachment. I don’t see it being nearly that easy with any other styles.

I see nothing wrong with the conventional pole system for teams. In fact that method is used throughout Scandanavia and Europe, so the double shaft system is not a necessity. It just saves time and equipment when transitioning horses from single horse work to the team, or from one piece to another. You don’t need eveners or neckyokes, and there is no difference if the horse is single or in the team.

I personally am not interested in trying to realign my harnessing systems to equipment, and I think many people share that sentiment. The Swedish designer whom I am working with is cognizant of that, and incorporates flexibility in his designs, so that people can attach to it in ways that make the equipment functions for them……. Within limits. He is a highly skilled and knowledgable craftsman, and has many aspects thought out and measures to perfection, but it is a simple matter to change draft attachments to fit the needs of the teamster.

Hope that helps, Carl

[Ron]

I agree with you that I am not going to realign things I am just to lazy and to old to do that. However I do like to think about new ideas that may solve old problems. On our farm we used to do a lot of split work with tractors one way and horses the next. Shunting wagons in hay season is a good example of a job for horses but I hate changing tractor and horse tongues. Being too easily put off I usually take the easy way out and just use the tractor. I could use the horses and fore cart but I hate playing snap the whip with a cart hitched to a wagon and the team catches me off guard. I have given up flying from fore carts for lent.
This Swedish system I suspect may have been adapted for this purpose. It would be conceivable that one could put rings on a regular short tractor tongue and using Swedish shafts simply hook on to an existing tractor tongue wagon with out changing poles. If it worked it would be a pretty good advancement on our farm. I might think about this one some more. Thanks for the input.

[carl ny]

When I was a kid we used both horses and tractor. We used a long pole and hauled with a tractor. The pole had an end that looked like the end of a tractor style neap to hook on the drawbar. Made for a long hitch but it worked

Carl

[Author]

Posts