Ronnie Tucker’s operation (Pics/Disc. Mules, Jerk line, loading logs w parbuckle)

[Carl Russell]

I have a smaller frame auto-steer wagon that I use for logs like Ronnie does. There are several reasons why I prefer it over the fifth wheel style.

First, on un-even slope, they are much more stable, keeping the wheels squarely under the load. Fifth wheel turning moves the balance in under the load and can become pretty tippy.

Second, going downhill the pushing load is forced to follow the angle of the front wheels, while a fifth wheel wagon can jack-knife with the load heading straight down the hill at the angle of the rear wheels.

As Ronnie says, they are not as easy to maneuver around the woods because they can’t turn quite as sharply, but I just take that into consideration when I use it.

I tend to use it moving logs from a staging area over long distances, so there is more open area to turn the rig around. Most often I use it to bring logs home from a nearby job, or some other reason to haul them down the town road… more apt to use a sled in the woods for stability. I brought 350bf of spruce logs home from a job 3 miles away, up a big hill, and down the other side.

One other problem with auto steer is they don’t tend to track as smoothly as the fifth wheel type though, swaying a bit, but very little pole slap.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I also wanted to mention that I use 12’long skids to roll the logs up.

I have taken to attaching my parbuckle chains directly to the upper end of the skid. This helps to keep the skid in place by putting back-pressure on the skid as the log pushes against it on its way up.

Like Ronnie I use a loop of chain, with a single chain going to the pulling animals. This way I can move the hitch point to the place where the log rolls evenly up the skids.

Also by having the parbuckle attached to the end of the skid makes it so as soon as the log is on the wagon the forward pressure stops. Another way I do this sometimes is to chain directly to the bunk, which can help to lift the log onto the bunk, but will also act to stop the log. The problem is when you get up a tier, you need to move the chain attachment location up so that the log will roll up there.

Carl

[Ronnie Tucker]

all of carls points are right. i have never turned a wagon load of logs over but it does happen.wagons like i use have a more narrow tread than most auto steer wagons.which is better in getting through tight spots.you must plan ahead on your load size and the route you will use. there is a learning curve. ronnie

[Ronnie Tucker]

i hook my chains to the center of the bolsters.on each end of the bolster i have some short chains that go over the skid poles to help keep them in place.for the next layer they just rest on the first layer of logs. i cut my skids 5or 6ft long.if i feel like i might need them i use wheel sticks on the other side. a wheel stick is a pole about 3in diamater set at a angle from the ground up as high as yourload will be.i chain them to the bolster to keep a log from rolling off.maybe some winter to get away fromthe cold and snow you can come and see how i do it. ronnie

[Carl Russell]

Ronnie Tucker;25412 wrote:

……maybe some winter to get away fromthe cold and snow you can come and see how i do it. ronnie

Sounds good to me!!:D

Carl

[Mark Cowdrey]

Doesn’t it though!

Carl, how do you attach your parbuckle chain to your skids?
Do you sometimes start rolling a log up and then stop and adjust where your “draw chain” hooks to your parbuckle chain? Or can you eyeball it pretty good to start by examining the log and its position relative to the wagon?
Thanks,
Mark

[Carl Russell]

I cut a groove around the skid near the end then wrap my 5/16″ load chain around it there. The groove helps to keep the chain from slipping as the skids are typically only 3-4″ dia…. tough for a chain to choke tightly. I put the choke on the bottom side of the skid, then run the chain up over the end, then down to the log, this way the chain will make the log roll off of the end of the skid, instead of coming to a stop just inches from the end of the skid.

I also flatten the top end and cut a flat taper on the lower end to prevent the skid from rolling.

Yes…. a bit of all of that. Eye-ball it. Try it. Adjust if needed… after a few logs at a certain loading area, the eye gets adjusted. Then main thing is to have the animal, or animals, calm and responsive. It can require some effort on their part, but you don’t need them hell bent for leather.

Like I have said many times before…. “Logging isn’t just about skidding logs with horses, it’s about working horses in the woods”.

Loading logs like this is another example of the purpose for having handy working animals. To make logging successful with animals, you need to have the animals do the work. Maneuvers like this can make all the difference.

I have spoken to, and watched, a lot of horse-loggers who have determined their animals are limited in performance to certain middle of the road logging exercises. This work that Ronnie has demonstrated here is not novelty, it is the back-bone of traditional effective use of animal power in the woods (anywhere for that matter).

Carl

[Mark Cowdrey]

Carl,
Thanks for your clear description. The part about running the chain over the end so the log comes off the skid sounds key. It is info like that that can make the difference between success or not for someone trying it for the first time.

In my limited experience what one tries w their horse(s) has a large component of self confidence. You may recall the recent day I was helping Brad w my single horse. There was a good sized stem on the ground that you asked if we were going to twitch. I replied that I thought the first two logs was more than my horse could/should do, that I would take the top. Well, we took the top and I thought what the heck, if I get those other two Brad will have a load on the deck. So we did it. He had to hump them and was a little anxious to start, but he did fine. Thinking back on it, I don’t suppose I ever would have tried if you hadn’t inquired. Sometimes the “innocent” question or comment by those with experience can help move others out of the middle of the road.
Thanks.
Mark

[Tim Harrigan]

Nice thread, a short video would be sweet.

[Carl Russell]

Mark Cowdrey;25442 wrote:

Carl,
Thanks for your clear description. The part about running the chain over the end so the log comes off the skid sounds key. It is info like that that can make the difference between success or not for someone trying it for the first time.

In my limited experience what one tries w their horse(s) has a large component of self confidence. …..

Although I have learned a lot from reading, watching others, and listening to mentors, there is a lot I have learned explicitly from trial and error. This is one example. I figured this out after I had a big-ass yellow birch log perched at the edge of a load, and had to back the critters off to let it down, when it fell off the skids and under the truck……

“Failure is no excuse for success” .

As much information as I may be able to share, let my most important message be “Try it, learn from it, improve on it”. Don’t let uncertainty limit your potential.

Let Ronnie’s pictures serve as inspiration to try something you haven’t yet. Rather than thinking about how to make animals pay for powerful machines and technology, think about how it can be done with live power, and “TRY IT”.

Carl

[Ronnie Tucker]

amen to what carl says. most people have to little faith in themselves and their stock.if you fasten your chains in the center they will always go on the bolster.some day i want to make a viedo of logging on a wagon.ronnie tucker

[J-L]

Don’t wait too long for ‘someday’ Ronnie. Get it done for sure. Much as I like many of the video’s you see, darn few are about real work. I like the few that get right down to the nut cuttin’, so to speak.
I won’t name any of the video’s but a good deal of them are spending so much time on the harnessing or the ‘I love my horse because…’, or most commonly the ‘old timey’ angle. Good, solid, nuts and bolts video about getting it done.

[lancek]

Amen to that jl if you need some help Ronnie my boy Jake is pretty good with a video cam and we are in south east Mo now by poplar bluff not to far from you if Im thinking right! We should make one lancek

[Ronnie Tucker]

i might take you up on that offer .someone who knows logging whould know more what to do .i live west of nashville 55 miles. ronnie tucker

[Carl Russell]

Before this thread slips away, I just wanted to write that the chain on the end of the skid system really comes in handy when piling logs on a landing. That way there are no chains to pull out form under logs.

I have rolled tree length logs such as red pine utility poles, and white pines with several logs in them up on a pile before bucking. I had a landing with an incline to roadside where the truck could load. I would pull in the stick, set the skids, slip the chain loop under, take the team to the other side, hook to the parbuckle, and roll them up. Not as much peavey work, and the skids are easily set higher as the pile grows.

Carl

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