safety issues

[Kristin]

Hi everyone –

Thought I might start a conversation about safety issues here. In our five years of farming with draft horses I’ve had a few near misses and one wreck that thankfully resulted in nothing worse than a broken hand. The thought of how bad that one could have been still wakes me up at night sometimes. I’ve learned a lot from each sticky situation but I sure would have rather learned how to *prevent* them.

What are your best safety tips? What have you learned from mistakes or accidents? And what do you do if you find yourself in a runaway situation? Obviously prevention is the best, but is every runaway aviodable? For example, I was raking hay two summers ago and the horses stepped into a yellowjacket nest. That was a wild ride, but it didn’t end in a wreck.

All best,
Kristin

[Gabe Ayers]

Well, this could develop into a long discussion. Anyone that has worked with animals for any length of time has experienced the extreme side of prey animal fear/flight survival instinct – running away.

I am only a horseman and know nothing about bull whipping. If I live long enough I hope to go where ever Drew Conroy is working and help him, so I may learn.

I’ll start the discussion about equine. The aha moment for me was when I discovered the lever bit. A run away – (despite all the best efforts of any human) – offers the occasion of using the primal instinct of fear to stop the animals as a safe choice. If horses are afraid and run, they will equally be afraid of the serious signals of a level bit. They simply will chose to not run through the pain of the bit when adjusted properly and close attention to their postures. Not that the object is to give them pain, but that going forward is less comfortable than not going forward. The point is to not use the pressure of the leverage for pain, but to have horses that operate with “power steering” versus manual. It is just real nice to have horses that know what whoa means. It comes back to the park gear analogy I make in an earlier post. If they don’t have a park, none of the other gears count, because without it the horse is dangerous to work with.

The lever bit applies three pressures. One on the bar, one on the chin and one on the pole. After thirty years of working hundreds of horses this is the only bit I will work with. Insurance companies have required that people working in public settings use them to get a reduced rate or insurance at all. That is a safety concern, addressed by a perceived remedy, proven by some of the biggest crooks in modern life hedging their bets by requiring a lever bit. (forgive the insurance bash, if you can afford to)

We use a cheap solid brass Military Show Bit, sometimes called an Elbow bit.

Although knowing you can stop horses, doesn’t make it any easier to be a good horseman. One still must have a degree of horse sense and common sense. A unique ability to be present to the situation at hand and be the kind boss horse in the herd, and more…

When we teach at our Biological Woodsmen classes we spend hours discussing the determination of safe side/danger side. This should be a consideration of everything you do on the farm or in the woods. This is a part of the state of the art hand felling (chainsaw) of timber and continues throughout the process of utilizing the ultimate low impact overland extraction technique – animal power. For example – the safe side is uphill, out of the circle of moving objects not aligned straight behind your animals and in the location where you can see the most of what is going on.

Anticipation of the next action and reaction… – knowing what will happen in one situation or another, particularly in complex operations is only acquired through experience.

But being taught to think about it from “safety first” is part of professional training at any dynamic physical job. It is our mantra.

Your work starts with assessing danger and planning your moves out to avoid scary situations when you can. Just as there are proper procedures to harness, hitch, drive and care for your horses, there are culturally important aspects requiring thinking ahead, while being present to what is at hand.

This will be a great thread. If we don’t help new people (= each other) be successful then they will be less likely to stick with it. I think all us elders can still learn something too – maybe work our horses a little longer.

There is nothing more important to learning the skills of doing anything with horses – than safety. Life is dangerous everywhere, but you throw in a couple of tons of fear equals flight biological specimens that store more energy in their muscle cells than anything else on land and you got power enough to kill you, others and themselves.

I look forward to seeing the thread grow. This is a subject that can’t be exhausted or over discussed. Thanks for posting Kristin

[Gooserun Farm]

My first team used to do alot of exciting stuff such as run away and what not. We had a couple small wrecks before I started to catch on better. It wasn’t so much the horses as it was me. Had never worked horses before and went about it backwards. Bought them, harnessed and hooked them, then tried to figure out how to drive. Very steep learning curve. Finally muddled through and things are getting easier. Still don’t know what I don’t know.:) I find that the more people you can work with the more little tricks you can pick up to be safe. One thing I do is pretty much always assume they are on the verge of running off or acting up. Suprised alot less often. I have gone to the bits similar to what Jason described and found they make quite a difference. I have very little grip in my left hand and it’s alot easier to apply a little more force if I need it. Thankfully my team and I work much better together now. Highly recommend a mentor starting out. Much safer and hopefully less broken bones.

[Jean]

Jason – do you mean lever bit or level bit? You use both terms in your post.

Gooserun – I also think that my mare is always about to do something foolish. I mentioned that to a teamster I was working with and she said that I should stop thinking that way and instead assume that nothing bad was going to happen. That way I would be more relaxed and would be able to feel it better if she was about to go goofy on me.

I am looking forward to more posts on this subject. I find as I get older “safety first” brings on a whole new meaning for me.

I did have my first runaway this summer. Lucky for me, I was driving my mom’s brat of a mini. She was able to dump me from the cart. I only hurt my ego.

[Carl Russell]

I always assume that my animals may run away. However, I expect them to stay still. By assuming that they are unpredictable, I remain alert. By expecting them to stand I remain the leader. Safety for me goes to the fundamental connection with the animal, communication.

I long ago switched to a plain old straight bit. It causes very little discomfort, thereby providing subtle stimulus to the mouth. My animals are conditioned to stop on release of pressure. The only run-away I ever had was the result of a broken rein, and only then because I was on the ground next to a spring tooth harrow and I had to let go, or get harrowed. Even then, when I caught up to them they were waiting for me, frightened yes, but looking for my guidance.

To get extra pressure on the bit while driving to control speed/effort, I put drop straps off the rings on my hames so that the rein comes in lower, which puts pressure directly onto the lower jaw, and not up into the mouth. This is a much more effective way to hold the horses head in, and gives a clearer message to the horse, causing the desired pressure without excess pain.

Safety is a function of the degree of risk you are willing to take. This statement is meant to make you think. Obviously risk is to be avoided. But how aware are you of the risk. Be aware, and honest about the capability of team and teamster. Remember that your willingness to encounter risk will result in a rapid escalation of reaction from the horses if they don’t share your appraisal of the situation. Safety today may be different tomorrow as you gain experience, and the risk that existed yesterday will be overcome by your degree of preparedness.

There’s no way to finish this thought, I’ll be back.

Awesome group growing here, Carl

[Donn Hewes]

Great thread Kristin, I have had a few runaways; most of us have, but I like the idea that I don’t expect to have them in the future. This is not exactly the same as saying they will never happen; but more along the lines of, I make a conscious effort to prepare myself, my equipment, my work, and my animals such that these accidents will be avoided. I probably did a poor job of paraphrasing something I read in the work horse hand book.
Having said that, I had a runaway last year, (many years after the last one). I had failed many of the tests I set for my self above. I had a equipment brake down of a manure spreader, and I had a green horse that was not ready for the work. After many years of working successfully it was an eye opening experience to realize that a Lack of accidents for several years was not a guarantee that I was doing everything I could to prevent them.
About the lever bits, I have been slowly useing more of them, but not with the clear understanding that Jason described. I use a variety of bits and line placements in order to allow the different animals to work with the same line pressure. I work everthing from 28 y/o halflingers (any line pressure is to much for these two). Two 12 y/o molly mules which I first tried to take the lever bits away from, and later realized this was a mistake. Two three coming four y/o’s (one mule, one belgian) that I started and so far are pretty light mouthed. One 20 y/o Belgian gelding who is happy with his lever bit down one spot.
For the last year or so I have been trying to retrain my self and my animals to have a new relationship with the lines and line pressure. the idea came from a Steve Bower book. It is simply that every pressure going down the lines should signal something. That means two animals walking straight ahead doing exactly what you want should not feel any pressure. I have not gone so far as to loose contact with the animals, but I really like the idea of working toward a lighter and lighter touch. I think the lever bits could work in a system like this. When I finely returned the proper lever bit to the most afending mule she actually relaxed and started to work better with less line pressure. One question Jason, in your approach to these bits are you using a variety of line placements, or always the bottom, or perhaps just not the direct (or top) placement. I perfer the ones that are not the broken snaffles but the straight bar, although that is just based on instinct.
Well, that is a long post, I apologize for any misplellings, I couldn’t figure out how to make the spell checker work, My wife is out of town, and the horses are all out in the barn, so there is no one to help me. Donn

[Gabe Ayers]

Donn,

We surely use the different settings on the bits, but don’t change the line placement unless we are driving a horse for the first time.

There are three settings on the Military Show Bit and we work the solid straight bar bit type. Top setting is little or no leverage, the second is moderate leverage and the bottom is most severe pressure. We have no horses that require the bottom setting, but my main pair are comfortable in the middle setting. We do move them around depending on the horses moods and attitudes. If the younger horse wants to be to fast and maybe is anticipating the start of a load we may drop the leverage for a few logs and then go back. Many of the older horses use no leverage or the top setting. Our stallions work without any leverage, they are smart, brave, lazy and only need slight signals to control their rate of travel, starts, backing up and turning.

When driving a horse for the first time we keep one line completely free so if they do get away you can hold that one line and they will turn back towards you – facing you and stop.

It is lever, sorry for the Lever typo earlier, I could also use a proof reader, but work on it alone mostly, after everything else is done or since that never happens on the farm, after I am tired of doing everything else and the horses are cared for and ready for tomorrow. They run tomorrow on what we fed them twelve hours earlier or today.

Bit placement or adjustment is important. It needs to be tight enough to put two wrinkles in the corner of their mouths, so they can’t get their tongue under it. The curb chain is self adjusting by twisting the chain to lay flat and pull it as tight as you can and then when it slips down the hook it is adjusted. The point is unless they push through the bit there is no curb pressure applied, which is how you get light contact or power steering.

If I could think what I wanted a horse to do and get a response I would, but in lieu of that extra sensory connection, we use voice and minimum contact to get it to the least signals for the most control.

I agree that horses sense your nervousness, so be relaxed, calm, but alert…

Nice to hear from a female horseman. Man, in “horseman” being a contraction of human, not a gender restriction.

Great thread, looking forward to reading more.

[Carl Russell]

As far as bit pressure is concerned, I feel that it is my objective to have minimal pressure, but never no pressure. By my guidance the horse will develop an understanding of the energy that she/he has to spend in learning to accept the pressure. In other words, I make it the responsibility of the horse to reduce pressure.

In my experience, it seems counter-intuitive, but when I have a horse that is resisting pressure, I go to an even softer bit. I keep rubber bits for just that purpose. I have come to understand that the horse that fights the bit is fighting pain. With the pain there is limited ability to sense the subtle pressure changes that I am conveying to their mouth. Once the horse begins to understand that the bit is the connection that transmits my guidance that she/he is desiring, then they will be much more inclined to accept pressure from a steel bit.

This all figures into safety because it is one of the foundations of the working relationship, communication. If we can’t maintain effective communication with our animals we can’t safely lead them into working situations. With that said I will have to reiterate some of what I’ve said in other threads, that knowledge of the work to be done is a significant part of communication, and therefore safety.

As we appraise risk, we need to be able to fully understand how we intend to lead our beasts into action. If we are inexperienced in the working situation, then our ability to appraise risk is compromised. This is not to acknowledge the situation such as Donn explains, or my experience where misplaced comfort led to complacency, which allowed for inadequate maintenance, and in my case resulted in a broken line, which although having the same result, is really between teamster and equipment. It is very hard to have expectations of safety from horses involved in situation where equipment breaks or fails, because the resulting stimulus is virtually uncontrollable.

Obviously we need to understand the subtleties of teaming, but as we promote draft animal education, I really believe that we need to stress knowledge of the working situation, for success and safety. This piece is difficult to find, or provide, but as we all look at the products that we produce from our enterprises, one of the most valuable has got to be experience.
Once we understand the plow, or mower, or manure spreader, or forest landscape, then we can have better ability to appraise risk.

At a certain point the ability to interpret, and respond to, the animal’s reaction to the situation also plays into the appraisal. Any thoughts on that?? Carl

[Gooserun Farm]

I have found that most of the time when I had a problem it was because of my inexperience rather than the horses or cattle. As I have worked them more I gained confidence and the ability to forsee some of the problems. When I said I assumed they were on the edge I didn’t mean I expected trouble only that I was on the lookout for it, similar to defensive driving.
Jean-did you have an audience with the mini episode? Always seems to be someone around when my ego gets bruised.
Regarding the lever bits I usually use them on the gentlest setting, however I do sometimes need to drop them a notch on one horse. Find I can use less pressure and get my message across.

[Jean]

GR Farm – of course I had an audience. All of them willing to give me advice on what I did wrong. The worst part of it was my brother-in-law caught her and he does not know the front from the back end of a horse. My mother was not impressed with my lack of control of her sweet little mare, who had never ever tried anything like that with her. I say it was a learning experience for us all.

Back to safety issues – my barn just got a complete makeover. I want to put something on the wood in the spring to protect it. My sister’s WB is a chewer, my draft is not. Should I use stain or paint. I would like to trim out the windows with some kind of metal. What is the safest for the animals?

[Gooserun Farm]

Jean, thanks for the chuckle. Glad I’m not the only one. My feed cribs have a piece of regular angle iron bolted on where a horse would chew. Works good. Don’t know about paint or stain. Always heard horse won’t chew hemlock. Not sure though. Regarding bruised egos I was showing one of my wife’s saddle horses to a customer the other day. Got gabbing, wasn’t paying attention , bailed into saddle. Went right off the other side. Forgot to check tightness of cynch. 3 women standing there. Horse never moved. Pride ran away somewhere. Worst part is they didn’t buy him.:)

[Plowboy]

While the use of lever bits may help, knowing your animals or learning their language is the most important skill. Not everyone will be able to do it unless they aspire to. We have 8 head of horses and have owned a few others and trained a bunch also. Each horse has a unique personality and after using them all for countless hours we know just about what to expect with each one of them in any given situation. We have a black gelding that when he has moods will run in place. He’s nervous but well broke while doing his dance will never get out of line or pinch your fingers when getting hooked or unhooked. We’ve had him 17 years and he hasn’t changed or slowed down he’s a good lead furrow horse in our tandem hitches. I drive him mostly by voice when turning and he’s a good one. Dad says he wouldn’t take a million bucks for him and wouldn’t give 50 cents for one like him. Maggie is 12 and alert. An experienced teamster said last year when we were hitching our 6 to plow, “watch that gray mare , she’s gonna fly”. Not a chance she’s just about bomb proof and has made countless public appearances with her mother Maude. Belle was nearly uncontrollable when we started her but came from a few bad experiences in her life before she came to us including having her foal killed by a car at several weeks old. We stuck with her and now she’s hard to beat on the farm. Responsive, powerfull but still gets rattled at times although nothing serious so she only leaves the farm for work events so far. Anyone else would’ve sent her to the cannery but she’s a picture of a farm Percheron and has nice foals. The rest are all really good but have their days or moods and everyone is sharper the more they get used. If one of them is getting ready to get out of line we usually notice it and correct it before it gets serious.
My 84 year old mentor always watches for body language. He never taught me I learned by watching him. His eyes are constantly focused on his team and a good thing because even at his age he still retrains alot of renegades.
We have had a couple runaways usually because something causes them to spook not because they are runaways. I even owned an explosive runaway horse that I bought in. We worked him hard and he was ok until a bearing broke on the hay rake and when Dad got him stopped his rake was missing 44 teeth.
We haven’t had any trouble in years and I won’t say it couldn’t happen tommorrow but being aware of their signals and body language will help prevent good horses from running. Runaway horses that are known for running are usually a product of poor training or poor handling.
The more time you spend with your animals the better you get to know them and thus you learn what to expect from them.

[Does’ Leap]

I am wondering how folks have incorporated round pen training (or not) in their efforts to have safer, more reliable horses. By way of introduction, my wife and I run a small goat dairy and process all of our milk into cheese. We started with horses approximately 6 months ago with a team of Percheron mares – horses who were not a good match for our limited (non existant?) skill set. Run aways (yes, plural but with no one hurt) and me being severely kicked twice (one incident) led us to return the team (purchased on a trial basis) and look for another. We ended up with a great team of 5 year old geldings perch/belgian crosses who were worked daily on a farm in Wisconson. Three months of working with our fiesty mares combined with a 3 day workshop and lots of reading havenow put in a better position (yes, still very green) to have success with these great horses who presesnt a night and day differnce with our previous team.

Because of our lack of experience and the advice of other teamsters, we have set up a round pen and have been working our horses with the aid of a Clinton Anderson dvd (recommended). Our submisive horse has done wonderfully while the dominant horse, who is completely well behaved and calm in harness, has challanged us directly by trying to kick and even charging. Despite this, he is making great progress and is slowly and grudgingly accepting us directing some basic movements in the round pen. I am interested reading about others’ experience in the round pen. Specifically I would like to know how others have adapted this technique to drafts (I have read some work by both Lynn Miller and Doc Hammil). I would like to know if anyone has worked on “Whoa” and getting horses to stop on verbal command and other training techniques that lead to safer more predictable horeses.

George van Vlaanderen
Does’ Leap Farm
Bakersfield, Vermont

[goodcompanion]

@Does’ Leap 600 wrote:

Our submisive horse has done wonderfully while the dominant horse, who is completely well behaved and calm in harness, has challanged us directly by trying to kick and even charging. Despite this, he is making great progress and is slowly and grudgingly accepting us directing some basic movements in the round pen.

I have a horse that used to be the dominant one of his team and wanted to be the boss of people too. Sometimes this was a problem, sometimes not. For instance he would kind of half be led, half drag you. He would not tolerate his feet being handled at all–his previous owner just used stocks.

I don’t have stocks, so I decided to try an old-timey trick of tying up his foot. Boy did that not work how I intended. We had him in cross ties and tied up the front foot with a rope looped up over the shoulder and around the opposite leg. The horse threw a fit, rearing and hopping on the front leg (while we stayed the hell out of the way) , and finally fell/rolled over when he couldn’t hop any more. Cross ties wrapped around his windpipe somehow. It was nip and tuck to get him out, a few more seconds and we would have had dead horse, I think. But we got a knot undone and he revived.

I really don’t recommend the above method but now he lifts his feet, leads properly, and generally attends to humans (particularly me) and is never aggressive. I have heard that making a horse fall down (safer way, just tie his feet together) is a good way to show who’s in charge.

[Jean]

I don’t have a round pen to work in, but I do use one of my smaller paddocks as a place to work on free lunging my percheron. She has an iffy background and I was having trouble with her trusting me. She would walk right through me to get to where she wanted to go. Didn’t matter if we were both in the door way at the same time, she would push her way through. She has never been aggressive towards me, just not respectful.

I use a 20 foot soft rope to get her to move away from me, I make her walk, trot, canter and whoa from a distant. She does not know how to lunge on a line, but we made some great progress with the free lunging. I can ground drive her with good success now, she understands voice commands and she has taught me gee and haw (I swear I need to tattoo those on the correct hands. I always get it backwards)

My only concern with round pens, is are they large enough for the bigger horses?

We have had some scary things happen while riding and being able to talk her down has been a blessing.

Jean

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