safety issues

[jac]

Mine are all straight bar and had no probs.. I personally think the jointed bits can be harder on the horses mouth than the straight bar in the wrong hands due to the nut cracker action…
John

[jen judkins]

@near horse 22265 wrote:

Straight/solid bar or jointed? Is there a benefit of one of those over the other?

Geoff, It would depend on the horses mouth and shape of their palate. In a horse with a fairly normal size tongue and arch to the palate, the two style snaffles are pretty equivalent…..pretty mild. For the horse with a shallow palate or large tongue, the jointed bit can cause pain, either to the palate (with the pointed joint) or pinch the tongue (known as the nutcracker effect). To avoid this effect, if you have a horse like this, is to go either to a french link, which has two joints or to a straight bit.

I’ve always ridden with a jointed snaffle. Never had any problems. When I bought a liverpool for Reno, I naturally gravitated to the jointed bit. This bit made him very agitated even when used in the snaffle setting. I switched to a mullen mouth (straight bit) and have not had a problem.

I’ll just say for the purposes of this discussion, I have never had any use for leverage bits in my riding horses. I have a few in my tack room, that I experimented with along the way, but never found them to be a good substitute for soft, educated hands applied with the proper focus.

I do find myself at a disadvantage driving however, as my only point of contact with my horse is through the lines (and with my voice). This has been a big adjustment for me, triing to refine the subtle use of rein pressure variations and release. I use a straight liverpool, just like the one Carl is speaking of. I use it at the snaffle setting without leverage 90% of the time. There are times though that I am acutely aware that I may need some leverage for training purposes….hooking on to a new piece of equipment or working in a distracting environment. In these cases I drop the setting down one notch until I am sure I have a good thing going, then set it back to the snaffle setting. It works for Reno and me. So whatever.:)

[Donn Hewes]

I have both straight and jointed. I never really knew why some horses liked one or the other but it seamed to me that they did. When the bit is in their mouth and they have been working, is it relaxed? A little chewing can be normal, but if you think it bothers them try the other. Most of mine are straight bar, and it seems most of the horses and mules I have worked with have found them to be acceptable.

[jen judkins]

One more comment, for what its worth. I think a teamster should earn the right to use a leverage bit. Green hands on a leverage bit, could take the try out of a good horse very easily. Thinking on my recent experience teaching people to drive….I would never let a novice drive my horse with the reins set on a leverage setting (as a single). If Reno were in the frame of mind to need the leverage, I would take him out of the teaching setting and work out the issue before letting novice hands on the lines.

[Carl Russell]

I prefer straight, as a jointed but will cause pinching which can lead to pain, which can distract the horse from feeling the release.

Carl

[Scott G]

There is an outfit here in the RM region who markets (and maybe manufactures) an interchangable bit system. They are very refined and very well made. Using secure recessed set screws, you can change shanks, bars, ports on bars, jointed bars, etc.. For example, you can change out the straight bar on your liverpool with a snaffle. They are kinda spendy but extremely well made and all bar components are sweet mouthed. They allow you to really “fine tune” your headgear. Unfortunately I can’t remember the company’s name but with a bit of searching it could be tracked down.

Almost made the plunge, but balked. Maybe next year. Truth is all of the horses I have driven were in either an egg butt/D-ring smooth snaffle or liverpool and they responded just fine. Seems to me moving from the smooth snaffle to the liverpool with all of the adjustment options you have pretty much gives you all of the options. Headgear like double-twisted wire snaffles I’ve never had much use for, that option seems to come with hard mouthed and/or some competition pulling horses.

I picked up a book over twenty years ago “Bits” authored by Louis Taylor that is a good read, albeit a bit dry, on every conceivable bit of headgear and following up on the history. If it is still in print it is a good one to have on the shelf.

Happy T-Day everyone!

[grey]

@jac 22263 wrote:

One slight disadvantage with liverpools over the military bit is when they are used with a team.. the cross checks tend to pull the circle into the inside of the jaw. I got some stainless wire in the mig welder and fixed the inside port solid. Then I got the military bits which dont have the big circles of the liverpool… In the days of the royal mail stage coach in Britain the bottom slot on a 3 slot liverpool was known as “the duffers hole”…. A book written by Max Pape of Germany in the 1930s on coach driving maintained that the cross checks should be buckled to the shank which stopped the bit being twisted into the jaw…
John

Over here, at least, one can get a Liverpool that has fixed shanks *or* pivoting shanks like the ones you are describing. I always wondered why the shanks should be able to pivot on the mouthpiece. I had some of each and got rid of the pivoting ones early on because of the problem you described. I eventually got rid of the Liverpools altogether and now I have the (military) elbow bits for use when I want a shanked bit to drive in. They have pivoting shanks too but it doesn’t seem to present any sort of problem, unlike the Liverpools.

I put the elbow bits on when I’m going to be hitched to a vehicle and driving in public. The rest of the time I use snaffles of one sort or another.

[Carl Russell]

jenjudkins;22272 wrote:

One more comment, for what its worth. I think a teamster should earn the right to use a leverage bit. Green hands on a leverage bit, could take the try out of a good horse very easily. Thinking on my recent experience teaching people to drive….I would never let a novice drive my horse with the reins set on a leverage setting (as a single). If Reno were in the frame of mind to need the leverage, I would take him out of the teaching setting and work out the issue before letting novice hands on the lines.

While I understand the point you are making here, from my perspective having the Liverpool on Kate this last weekend allowed the novices better opportunity to control, or regain control, as she is one horse that will, and did, take every bit of advantage she can get.

Carl

[jen judkins]

That’s why I put the clarification on my statement…..driving a single horse. I get what you are triing to accomplish with your offset rein settings and it is an entirely different scenario. In your case, it probably helps the beginner driver get a feel for driving as the two horses are not so out of synch with each other.

I guess my point….for my horse…..is that if I need the lower setting, I am working on something….and that is between me and him.

In your case you are offsetting a tendency your mare has to exert a certain amount of control. You might need that offset permanently or you might find she settles to the expectation you originally had.

But I can’t comment on driving a team. I have so little experience.

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