seeder recommendations

[Tim Harrigan]

I don’t think penetration will be an issue in tilled ground. I think the problems will be when the planter unit hits a rock, particularly if one planter wheel hits something and it tilts hard, not sure those tines will provide the stability that you might want. But whatever you do will have some issues to solve. Probably the most problem free set-up with be to mount in on a 3 pt on the back of a fore-cart with a winch to pick it up for transport and turning. You could also put a row marker on the fore-cart. How will you mark your rows?

[Andy Carson]

The forecart might be a good place to start, but I have never really got that excited about using it in the field. The plots I have are about 80*500 feet, so I will have about 23 rows. Winching up and down 23 times isn’t the end of the world, but as I can simply pick up the back by hand and shift it, I will probably be annoyed using the winch that much. Also, I have concerns about keeping the planter up in the air with the forecart. The planter is somewhat heavy, but it’s mostly that it is quite long. The 300 pound center of gravity would probably end up about 4 feet back from the forecart axle. That doesn’t give as much mechanical advantage as I would like to give my horse hold the front of the cart down with the shafts. Also, it makes the whole rig very long. I would definately have to widen my headlands. This is a bit of an asside, I know, but I can definately see myself becoming annoyed at the lack of maneuverability that are often inherent to large pieces of equipement that can’t be moved (or even budged) by hand. I think working a single makes me spoiled in this reguard. If a piece of equipement has less maneuverability to it than say, a wheelbarrow, I get annoyed and start thinking about how it can be simplier. This it to a large degree personal preferance. I will have to put some more thought into row marking. I thought that I would be able to see the row I space off of it. The spring tines, are actually half the distance, so I was thinking I could use them for spacing (in other words, line the tine up with the old tine track). As I think I will end up putting skids on these, I might need a different plan. I still ahev to think I will be able to see the row I just planted. I will be walking over it and there are 10 total wheels passing through that space doign this and that. That’s got to leave a mark?

[dominiquer60]

It is totally possible to eyeball where the next row is going to be, I’ve done it and always will. However, it maybe a lot easier for you and/or horse to go off of pre marked row path. Eyeballing to the side, like driving by the neighbors farm and rubber necking to see the new piece of equipment, can cause you to stray from the path that you want. I find it easier to do a straight job with a row marker using tractors and I know a horse can follow a mark too, it can take a lot of the guess work out. Also, I am a stickler for as straight and uniform of a row as possible, these kinds of rows are so much easier and more efficient to cultivate versus wobbly, too wide, too narrow variations that can easily happen when eyeballing a row. I am not saying these imperfections won’t happen if you use a row markers, but that you can set yourself up for straighter rows if you do use one. As always best of luck.

Erika

[Andy Carson]

I have some old disks I can pick through to find a nice row marker. I think this will be a nice addition. Thanks for the thought.

[Tim Harrigan]

Like Erika said, you can eyeball the rows but without a marker you will put a lot more effort into trying to keep a straight and uniform row width. The reality is that you will have plenty to think about just driving and keeping an eye on the planter components. I even made a row marker for one of my Planet Jr’s.

[Andy Carson]

OK, lots of little modifications here… I tried putting skids on the spring tines, but it got “complicated” and they had a tenancy to wobble under heavy load. In the end, I decided to use a couple extra C tines (on thier sides) as skids. The curve of them will, I think, keep them from dragging too much debris. There isn’t much in the way of suspension to them, but I mounted them so that I can adjust the height up and down. They are mounted towards the end of a 1×8 piece of oak, at 3 feet away from the center (half a foot in). The relatively thin piece of oak can twist very slightly under heavy load and provides a little bit of suspension. I limited the potential movement by connecting a chain to the from so I don’t worry about the wood breaking. The chain also assists in ensuring the planter tracks well. I ended up having to mess around with the chain drive for quite a while to get it to work. It was relatively easy to get the chain and gears to mesh when things weren’t moving, but the chain had a tendency to “walk off” some gears when the bike wheel turned. I ended up adding a couple “keeper” wheels to direct the chain in place laterally. Also, I have to rig up an efficient chain tightening system as the distance between the wheel and seeder gears changes when the bike wheel shifts up and down to follow the terrain. I drug the planter into the yard (with the depth adjusted to minimum) and the wheel/seeder mechanism seems to work well in general. I do need to add a little more downforce on the bike wheel as it slipped every now and then on the wet grass (and slipped alot on the snow). You’ll probably notice the somewhat strange handle on the back. It is designed to be lifted by placing one shoulder under the handle (in the curved part) and standing up. It’s not too hard to lift this way (although I wouldn’t call it easy) and you get a lot of vertical motion which allows all the wheels to clear for turning. The horizontal piece (a dowel rod) is meant to be grabbed while the back of the planter is in the air so you can steady it and push or pull it around. On cement (in the garage), the whole thing is very nimble, and quite maneuverable. In my yard (which is very soft and wet at the moment) picking up the back handle drives the front coulter deeply into the ground. I can pivot the planter around that front coulter without too much difficulty (other than my wife being “loadly disappointed” at the hole I was making). I couldn’t, however, move the planter forward or back. I hope this is not a limitation in the field… I suppose as long as I can turn, it shouldn’t be… I thought alot about the marker system. One of the problems is a lack of visibility due (in large part) to the size of the planter. If I walk behind the planter, I can’t see the ground in front of the planter. I didn’t consider walking in front of the planter for safety reasons, so that put me off the the side. Visibility is not great off to the side, but might be doable. I also got a little worried that my horse might muck up the mark walking through the center of it. In the end, I made the support for the skids exactly 7 feet long. This means that the end of this board will be exactly 42 inches from the center of the newly planter row. So if I can line up the edge of this board with the last row, I should end up with proper spacing. The edge of the board and my old row will be easy to see, and I will be walking off to that side already, so, I think it’s worth a try… Any comments, questions, or suggestions are, as always, very welcome!

[Tim Harrigan]

Well, I’ve never seen one like that before. Go to work.

[dominiquer60]

I am impressed with both the modified seeder and the abundance of bare ground:) I hope it works as good as it looks and I look forward to hearing more about it as you start to use it.
Best Wishes,
Erika

[Tim Harrigan]

The only problem I see is turning is going to be tough. If you tilt up it will drive the coulter in the ground and it will be really tough to side-shift or swing it around. You might want to ditch the coulter and mount a pneumatic or semi-pneumatic tire instead, something that will keep it out of the ground a little better.

[Andy Carson]

When I saw how deep the coulter went when I lifted up the back I had that same concern… It’s not that difficult to pivot on the front counter though, mostly because you end up with an 8 foot (or so) lever arm with which to turn. Any movements other than pivoting are near impossible though. I envision a 90 degree turn at the end of the row, 3.5 foot horse powered advancement, another 90 degree turn, then planting the next row. I can turn it 90 degrees in the yard (with sod) so I think it’s worth a try. Tim is probably right, but I kinda like that coulter as I could see by dragging it around the yard that it lets it the machine plant through anything. I am glad I can start with a crop that is not as important to me this year (peas) so I have time to tweek before I need to plant corn and sunflowers. Speaking of the peas, I have been thinking about what sort of spacing would be good for peas planted in rows (as opposed to solid). Garden peas are usually spaced around 1-2 inches apart, which would come out to about 35-70 lbs per acre with 3.5 foot rows. This is less than half the seeding rate for a solid stand. Perhaps this should concern me, perhaps not… To achieve this planting density with 3.5 foot rows, I would need to plant seeds every half inch, which seems extreme. I am tempted to compromise between these two techniques, planting twin rows of peas (~6 inches apart), with a 3.5 foot space between rows. That way, I can achieve densities more similar to the solid planting rate, while still being able to cultivate most of the crop. I do loose some ability to cultivate between the twin rows, and I would somewhat depend on the ability of the peas to crowd out weeds there. Perhaps I ought not be too concerned about the varying seeding rates? Any thoughts?

[Tim Harrigan]

It seems to me that weed control will be the tail that wags the dog. An advantage to solid seeding is that you use the entire surface and give more plants an equal opportunity for sunlight. If they jump quick and you get even coverage that will help with weed control. If you plant in rows, stick to the recommended rate for rows. You may very well get acceptable weed control with twin rows but you will for sure want the option to cultivate between rows. You might as well have subplots with different planting strategies the first year and do some experimentation. For me, I don’t like the thought of hand harvesting or running a mower through a solid mat of peas.

[Andy Carson]

@Tim Harrigan 25414 wrote:

You might as well have subplots with different planting strategies the first year

How smart! Yes, this is definately the answer to the question… Now why is it that I don’t think of these things? 😀

This is a little bit of an asside, but using animal power and a single planter gives you so many options to “tweek” the “normal” planting systems that options seem almost unlimited… Perhaps even “daunting” might be the right word sometimes. Making twin rows while still maintaining proper spacing between rows, for example, is probably not as casual of an option with larger systems (where larger capitol investiments would be required for new techniques). Perhaps I simply didn’t have a full understanding of the systems and descisions made when I worked on a larger farm in Idaho, but it sure seemed like we were pretty much doing the same things as the neighbors. I am curious how much the mass produced equipment itself ties large farmers into specific plans. I would also think that there would be a large resistance to “gambling” with various “experimental” techniques when your livelihood (not to mention paying off the debt from your equipment) depends almost entirely on production of one or two crops. Either way, it’s sure fun to be free of these hinderances!

[Andy Carson]

I checked out pivoting for the seeder again tonight. I am going to have to make some modification. I can go about 30 degrees one way or the other, but unless I sit the seeder down after a 30 degree turn to get another “bite” with the front coulter, i can’t make 90 degrees. The simplest solution is to put a board underneath the coulter so it can pivot without digging in. This solution does lack a certain “elegance” so I think I will probably end up playing a little with a front wheel or other type of pivot point…

[Tim Harrigan]

I think that might be a good idea. If you have to crab that thing around 46 times in 30 degree increments thats going to get old. 92 times with twin rows:eek:

[Andy Carson]

Here’s the planter in the “transport” position. The front wheels are wonderful. My wife wouldn’t quit teasing me while i posed, so you’ll have to excuse the expression. The wheels are forward and elevated (with respect to the coulter) about 3.5 inches. If I need to run deeper, I might be able to adjust, but I don’t see why I would need to go deeper.

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