seeding

[Andy Carson]

I broadcast the oats onto ground that was disked several times and then rolled without harrowing. It would definately be better to harrow after seeding, and I will do that next time I seed. Harrowing doesn’t take alot of time, either. Still, I got a very good stand of oats as a cover crop. I think I was able to get away with this because it rained hard for several days right after I seeded so the seed remained moist without being buried. Also, the disc left a rough surface with many small cracks and crevases for seed to fall into. Like I said, it worked for me, but I would recommend harrowing. I have had good success with clover using a similar system, but hairy vetch was largely a failure possibly because of seeding depth. I am not sure what legume you are proposing to mix into your oats or how deep it needs seeded. I would bet you could target a shallow location for both your clover and cereals and it would be fine if you get moisture at the right time. Oats (in my hands at least) seem to germinate and grow well even if seeded shallow. I am not sure if this is indeed a scientific fact, but more of an observation from one year. Either way, getting moisture at the right time might be a big “if” if you don’t get alot of rain in general.

The clover and turnip seed I broadcast right along with the oats seed and other than that the clover separate a bit, I had no problem. OldKat had a tip to mix in some coarse sand, which I will try when I do this again next fall.

I think we all have different challenges in different climates and land. My challenge has never been moisture, it’s mostly been weed control. I probably spend more time and passes disking and getting a plot ready to plant, and less time worrying about if the seeds will germinate. Put another way, everything seems to grow on my land, it’s a question of if it can beat the weeds (or even get enough of a head start that I can help out with cultivation). I don’t know how much of this info is going to be applicable to you and your land and climate. Also please take all this info with a grain of salt as I tend to try newer techniques which might be described as somewhat experimental with animal power. I have no way to compare them to older established techniques and can’t say if they are indeed better or worse. They are just techniques that have worked for me one fall. Best of luck to you!

[Tim Harrigan]

One thing that is not being brought up is the tillage done or soil condition before the disking/seeding gets done. Sickle, if you are plowing first or going into fall plowed ground that is probably quite a bit different from what Andy is doing by disking ground that has not been plowed. Andy is doing what I would do and that is to create a somewhat rough and blocky surface, not a finely prepared and leveled seedbed. I would broadcast over that and then maybe disk again, probably firm the seedbed with a cultipacker if I had one. That way much of the seed that fell into the cracks and underneath soil aggregates would be covered. The seeds would be at variable depths which is not all bad, you can get an OK stand with different weather conditions this way. A springtooth or spiketooth harrow does not have much value in this system because they are mostly leveling tools with some weed control benefits. They are not very good for covering seed, they mostly just move soil sideways and dry it out.

If you fall or spring plow and then disk you probably have a soil structure that is broken down and maybe can not use a clumpy surface to your advantage. The disk will probably be the best tool for working in seed, you can change the weight of the disk and perhaps the gang angle to change the soil action and depth of cover. Cultipacking would help, particularly if the soil was plowed and worked in the spring.

Oats and rye are fast starters and should give you good grazing fairly quick. I was not clear on your other plans for legumes of grass legume mix. Would that be in the same field to establish a long term pasture or hay field? Either way, timely rain will be important. I would also kick the seeding rate up for such a seeding because there is a good chance you will not get the emergence you would by drilling.

[sickle hocks]

Thanks everyone, it’s helpful…I know I’ll need to adapt all of this to my local conditions, really it’s going to be an experiment…

Tom, your clumpy surface system is interesting. My situation is like Andy’s…discing unplowed ground. Even before the advent of modern zero-till methods, plowing was pretty rare in my area…people used to work their land with a cultivator (shovels or maybe spikes) or disc before drill seeding. I have a sandy loam. I don’t think there is much of a sod, it has been in small grains and canola for decades…the last few years have been ‘zero-tilled’ but it was still torn up a bit for anhydrous ammonia application and seeding. Dad is used to the idea of a fine seedbed and is skeptical about broadcasting, and thinks the disc might not incorporate the stubble residue well enough…he’s probably right.

As I’m not trying to harvest grain, uneven germination times from variable seed depth probably won’t matter so much. We will have good soil moisture to start with this year, and a cool spring, but it can dry up in a hurry here..blizzard yesterday so it still looks like winter now

I want to interseed or underseed legumes mostly for soil building and nitrogen, if it’s not too much of a headache.

I want to try a rye + low coumarin sweet clover mix and hope to get some rotational grazing on it mid summer and late fall, and maybe even a bit next spring if it doesn’t winter kill.

I wanted to try oats with a red clover…it will be cut and windrowed at a late dough stage in the fall…ideally it is a bit late maturing so you don’t have to cut it while it is still warm and moist here to avoid mold…the swaths will be grazed after the snow, behind a moving electric fence.

And I’d like to start some perennial pasture with a grass legume mix.

..almost starting to wish I’d bought a tractor…well, the partners look like they are almost done their hay so I’m going to get the harness on and give us all a bit of practice

murray

[Andy Carson]

@sickle hocks 26373 wrote:

…thinks the disc might not incorporate the stubble residue well enough…he’s probably right.

If you disc like I disc, there will indeed be residue left on the surface. It might bug you to look at it, but what harm does it do? It’s good for moisture retention and as long as it doesn’t muck up your seeding or provide long term refuge to weed grasses, the residue is probably an asset rather than a liability. It takes alot of residue to muck up a broadcast spreader! 🙂 So, as long as moisture isn’t a limiting factor, I bet this system will work for you too. I have had great experiences with oats and clover on my land. Good luck again Murray and enjoy your drive. I got my pea plot disced again yesterday and it was still a good bit too wet to plant into. It’s sunny out today with a good breeze, so if the moisture is OK this afternoon, I’ll be seeding today. It ought to be fun and I’ll definately take some pictures.

[dlskidmore]

@dominiquer60 20989 wrote:

Perhaps this is not the best thing to do but I wish is was a possibility, but we actually cannot use a chisel on the flat because we are afraid of ripping up the 100 year old shallow clay tiles that drain our only flat ground.

I’ve been reading “Farm drainage: The Principles, Processes, and Effects of Draining Land with Stones, Wood, Plows, and Open Ditches, and Especially with Tiles” by Henry F. French (Copyright 1859). Reading along I recalled your issue with shallow tiles. The author emphasizes the importance of putting the tiles below the reach of the subsoil plow (he recommends 4 feet) but notes the experts in NY (a hotbed of farm drainage technology at the time) were recommending 2.5 to 3 feet deep drains. (The author was the predominant expert in NH, no other states mentioned as having particular experts on the subject.)

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