sheep / cow ‘flerd’ and coyotes

[sickle hocks]

Anyone have a ‘flerd’ of sheep and cattle?

I have highland cattle and raise them entirely on pasture. I’d like to add sheep as a complementary grazing species…break up parasite cycles, etc…Looking at some Icelandics.

I have a pretty scary bit of land for coyotes though. I’m wondering how hard it is to get the sheep to bond with the cattle, and how much predator control I could expect from having them together. I’m talking about a dozen cattle and a handful of sheep for starters. I’m thinking with the small numbers they will stick together?

With the cattle I’ve had no issues at all with predation, but i wonder if sheep would make it…

[katmoore]

when you get your sheep get a guard llama along with them…. one that has been used for guarding… and also NOT an intact male… We have coyotes all over around us… neighbors lose sheep and lambs every year.. .but we have not had one issue here… and our llama was less than $50.00. He came from a place that had used them for large flocks… he bonded with the sheep and the sheep took to him very quickly. Now they run to him if we try to move the sheep with our dogs… so when we herd practice with our border collie we seperate the llama and leave him with the younger lambs… then turn them all out when we are done. He keeps the lambs calm too when the moms are gone”working”
AND llamas aver very low maintenence if you get a minimal wool type!

[Billy Foster]

Lots of variables to think about: Are you planning on just some ewes or wethers? What do you have for fencing, do you use dogs to move the cattle/sheep. Do you plan on lambs?
We keep a small flock of sheep, about 20 ewes that we use to produce market lambs. We live in an area that gets considerable coyote pressure our solution has become livestock guard dogs and tight net fences.
If you plan on just some adult sheep I would look at something like Cheviots, they are tough as nails and will put up a fight against a coyote. The fencing would have to be more than a couple pieces of smooth wire but not as tight as if you were keeping lambs. In this scenario you could probably use a llama and have pretty good success; As long as you don’t use a dog to move your cattle in a MIG type system. I have had a couple Llamas and they were both too much trouble for me. Our operation requires us to move the sheep every day during the grazing season, both llamas that I had would either go after the dog or go in the wrong direction causing the flock to slip up. Too much stress for everyone involved. I can see where a Llama would work really nice in a set stocking situation.
If you plan on some lambs then the fences will need to be much tighter. We use livestock guard dogs and electro-netting with a strong fencer. I think the electro-netting, well electrified, could do a very good job protecting a group of lambs by itself. For us the dogs work very well at keeping predators informed that they are not welcome.
I am not sure how much protection cattle could provide for sheep. Coyotes get smart really fast. A healthy adult ewe, or wether, Hill Breed sheep like the Cheviot, could provide some protection for itself from the one off investigation from the local coyote BUT if you have an active hunting group of coyotes and there is no were else for them to get a meal, they will eventually cause you trouble, even for a full grown sheep. A couple years ago the news paper ran a story about a horse that was taken down by a group 40 miles from us.
All of this is my opinion so please take it as that. Highland cattle…they are some tough buggers themselves I hear!!
Billy

[Andy Carson]

Another component might be to pen the sheep at night. I would consider nothing else for my birds.

[Rod]

A good guard donkey is another option if you can find one. They will kill coyotes and can be very protective. They are fast smart and most hate canines. Again no intact males, a female is best over 4 years old.

[sickle hocks]

thanks for the thoughts! …darn, i don’t think this is going to work…

My grazing is a bit more extensive than intensive. I like to rotate every seven days or so. I was hoping to do mixed herd rather than follow-the-leader just to make watering easier and cut down on the time commitment. I use single wire electric for cross fencingl…the calves cross back and forth all the time, but i really don’t care as they don’t stray far from the herd…i think electronet would cost a fortune on the scale i’m dealing with, and would be a nuisance in the rougher parts..

Mostly the cattle just follow my calling when it’s time for a move…but i always have my dog along and i’d like him to be able to help or just walk along without being harassed or it all turning into a circus, so i’m not sure about guard llama’s and donkeys….bringing stuff in at night would be logistically tough, and i can’t be home every night anyway.

I would like to keep only ewes and rams fall to winter, lamb on grass in early spring, butcher and direct market lamb in the early fall. I was hoping someone would say, ‘sure, the sheep will stick tight with the cattle and everything will be fine’ as I had read something to that effect… but it seems like that might not be the case..grew up around cattle but i don’t know sheep at all..

this pdf talks a bit about flerds and establishing bonding, but really doesn’t get into enough detail
http://www.grassfedlivestock.org/10-09%20presentations/Mixed-Species%20Stocking.pdf

[Rod]

I think whether or not the sheep will bond to the cattle depends on the sheep breed. I know my Katahdins will run to my donkey when they are threatened but have not tried them with my cows.

[Anonymous]

Several points to make here:
1. I live in the UK. In most of Northern Europe, mixed grazing is normal. I understand that in some parts of the USA it’s considered “weird”. In one village near me the farmer keeps horses with a small herd of English longhorn cattle (this breed was crossed with the Hereford in places such as Texas). You’re absolutely right about parasites: mixed grazing is a good way to keep the use of anthelmintics down;
2. Raise the animals together and you shouldn’t have any trouble;
3. There are several ways to guard your livestock. Llamas are good and so are mule or hinny mares. Don’t use males as they lack the instinct to lead a herd. I’ve heard of a Shetland hinny guarding a flock of Merino sheep in Australia against dingos. The mare was smaller than the sheep! If you want to do this, check the mare is OK with sheep as some are aggressive towards them. Keep her away from other equines or she’ll pal up with them and ignore her herd (you could let her mix with equines once in a while perhaps at shows, though, if you knew the herd was safe). The additional advantage to using a guard mare is that during lambing you just need to bring your sheep close to the house (or into a barn) and leave them with the mare. She will act as “midwife” and only call to you out if a ewe has problems giving birth. Another trick may seem a bit bizarre but it works. When you have a crop of lambs, choose a bolshie male and introduce him very early on to your farm dogs. Let them play together. When he’s about to reach puberty, have him castrated ‘proud’ so he still exhibits some of the behaviour of a ram and put a bell on him. If he’s used to playing with dogs, he’ll chase any intruding coyotes, foxes or stray dogs with a view to having some fun. As you are no doubt aware, dogs are terrified of being chased by their “prey”. This was done by a shepherdess in England a few years ago, who was interviewed on TV. It was good fun to see the wether charging at dogs introduced into the field.

By the way, farmers in South Africa that use mule mares to guard their sheep report roughly a 90% reduction in the loss of lambs after doing so.

If you want bold sheep, try Soays.

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