sleigh shafts

[jac]

Grey that was an awsome description.. the foto shows the turner slightly on the over run and the breeching is working.. hence the closeness to the hocks. Never had a hock strike and would alter it if I did. As long as the slide is greased I have had no probs with it pulling the pad and the machine is light at the shaft tip because I fitted the singletree lower down. That old horse did the hay with no rubs or sores. I agree that the breeching wouldnt suit a heavy 2 wheel cart but is ok for the work we do.. The doubled up straps are the quarter straps which I looped thru a ring and clipped back on so I didnt have to alter when I put him back into the wagon with the neck yoke:rolleyes:.. The tail thing was for parade work.. shaved stump and the tail pleated up and put up in a bun.. great for show but looks awfull in the field… I would have to say that your top foto seems to show the breeching a bit low and a lot broader than is normal over here..I recon if that horse had to stop a load that justified breeching as wide as that its hind legs would be knocked from under him.. As for the English having problems with coach horses and sores.. an over greased turntable can cause the pole to waver back and forth thus tugging on the pole chains and pulling at the collar. The neck yoke and eveners is a much better idea. The harness in the foto is what we bought from Arron Martin in Canada 15 years ago and is sold as suitable for field or parade.. Oh and those shafts are off a 2 wheeled cart.. hence the weight.. but they work on the turner fine because they ballance out the rotors and the fact the singletree is lower… I would also like to add that British farmers refused to accept change.. Western breeching harness was demonstrated at Perth in the 30s but never caught on..neither did the sulky plow or manure spreader. Single furrow 10″ plows remained in use till the tractor came in. I dont use much of British harness..
John

[grey]

@jac 21307 wrote:

Never had a hock strike and would alter it if I did.

What would your adjustment options be? Was that implement designed for smaller horses? I have often wondered why the British have not embraced the pivoting tree for their horses in shafts. The angle of draft could be improved substantially and I have a hard time believing that it wouldn’t make the horse’s job easier. Is it typical that there might not be room for a singletree at the horse’s hocks, when using these heavy shafts and trying to continue to make use of the large staple to carry the shafts? Did you call that large top staple a “slide”?

@jac 21307 wrote:

The doubled up straps are the quarter straps which I looped thru a ring and clipped back on so I didnt have to alter when I put him back into the wagon with the neck yoke

The doubled up straps that I was wondering at are the ones that hold the britchen up; the ones that go from the top ring (on top of the rump) and hold the britchen up like suspenders. Are there buckles on those straps (the kind with the post in the center) or are they slides?

@jac 21307 wrote:

The tail thing was for parade work.. shaved stump and the tail pleated up and put up in a bun.. great for show but looks awfull in the field…

Does the hair at the top of the appendage get left long, for braiding, and then the lower part of the appendage get shaved? Do you have any photos of the tail done up?

Tradition certainly seems to be a limiting factor in some of the driving techniques and practices that I see performed in the UK.

[jac]

Youre right Grey .. British design wasnt that great, which is why I try not to use it. If I had any problems with hocks I would just knock out the staple and move it forward. That horse is probly the biggest I have and I admit there isnt a lot of room. The straps are on slides and assembled as per instructions by Arron Martin…remember I have no one else within 200 miles of here that uses horses for anything but showing !!. Believe me.. i wish I lived in a more horse based culture but i dont so I do what I can to improve the job. The hay turner was a machine I put together myself to get a job done . The shafts are off a 2 wheeled cart for Clydes but the horses are bigger now. I totaly agree that the British way of no single trees on equipment like that made the horses job harder…. I dont think I have any fotos of the tails.. I dont show any more but the Budweiser Clydes do the same tail…
John

[mitchmaine]

@jac 21293 wrote:

Mitch British shafts have a slide arangement that takes a ridge chain over the cart saddle on 2 wheeled carts. 2 draw chains, as they were called over here, went from the collar to staples towards the rear of the shaft. A hook on the front of the slider took the trace chain from an extra horse hooked up front. In the picture I have modified the original set up by using the staple that used to take the short chain from the collar, and used that for my quarter straps. a hook on the back of the slider took the original breeching chain..
John

hi john, i have a book here, a gift from a friend, that is filled with photographs of farming in scotland and england in the early half of the last century. and it shows just what you are describing. over and over. clearly the way a horse was hitched single in shafts. but, and this is the interesting part, teams of two or three, on a pole or in loose rigging, are hitched into double and triple trees. every time. very curious, that they obviously knew the principles of evening out a load, but wouldn’t do it with a single animal. what do you make of that?

and jamie. are you still there? i assume you are from north america? and if so, how did a very local way of rigging a horse in a cart, make it’s way over here and not get used but once in your father-in-laws case?????? what do you make of that?

interesting, don’t you think? let me know what you think.

thanks again, mitch

i saw a rotting set of team sleds out behind a barn once. the pole and roll were just about gone, but had no signs of any type of a hitch for an evener, but there was one single tree hooked to one of the runners, suggesting that the other might have been the same and that each horse was hooked seperately to a runner. never saw it before or since, and decided that it didn’t catch on for whatever reason. in the last two thousand years, who knows how many trys were made to pull a load? you have to think the ones that lasted were and are still the best methods.

[jac]

I cant answer that one Mitch:).. Mabey if I had asked grandfather more questions.. who knows.. Even the way they hitched a trace horse was a bit odd. The chains were hooked to the front of that slide arrangement and when the pull went on it must have put extra weight on the back of the horse in the shafts ?? As you say.. tons of eveners for pole work..
John

[mitchmaine]

john, i also noticed the plow harness consisted of a collar, backpad or saddle and chains for tugs. very simple rigs. and how do you drive a horse with jerk lines? too many questions. i know, but i sure would like to be able to talk with your and my grand dad again.

your friend, mitch

[jac]

Mitch by jerk lines I assume you mean a single line ? I have no idea but it looks pretty cool. The back pad seems to have been held in place by the fact the line of draft was broken.. not a great idea really but it seems to have worked.i prefer the modern harness. Wish I could have went with you and Penny on saturday. Next year for sure. Enjoy your day. .
John

[meleon]

Mitch,
Your right, the pictures shows a singletree attached to the sled. The shafts I have did not belong to that sled, when my father in law hard I was building a sled he offered me the shafts. I had never seen shafts setup that way before, hence the questions. My father inlaw assures me that, that was a very common setup for work sleds in these parts.
Jamie

[meleon]

Wow Its been over 2 years since I started this. It kinda fell off the priority list I guess. anyway wanted to get the pieces outta my little shop so I started to put it together over the holidays. I’ve basically followed the step by step on the “bens mill” video. I’ve also change the motor She’s a four year old 50% brabant 50% fjord cross. (can you say “accident”)

[Author]

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