Standing Stallions

[Gabe Ayers]

Is anyone else out there standing a stallion this spring? We are offering the services of two, Rudy and Sabre. We have been breeding mares now for about a month and hopefully will have a few new Suffolk horses next year. We didn’t breed but one mare last year, mostly because we already have more horses than we need and the market is weak. There are a limited number of folks that want work horses in this region. Having been in the work horse community for a few decades it is easy to become familiar with the long time draft horse people and the number of new ones is small. This is an issue Lynn spoke of at last years NEAPFD event. We really need to support and encourage anyone that has a sincere interest in working animals.

Back on the breeding horses issue. Sort of like looking at seed catalogs in the middle of winter, we had several (four) inquiries for Artificial Insemination a few months ago, but have not heard anything from them lately. The cost of collection and shipment make it prohibitive to most beginning folks that are actually intending to working horses. All horses are to cheap today and the supporting evidence of their value and usefulness in service to mankind is not well understood or developed. This is what makes this a good site, we get to share with those interested and be mutually encouraged by our common interest and values.

Meanwhile we continue to train this one stallion (Sabre) to have some manners around the mares. I can understand why he was deemed unusable by the previous owners. That is why we get horses sometimes, they simply can’t be handled by everyone and we try to fix their behavior as best we can. Breeding horses is dangerous as some of you know full well.

Our Rudy horse was born in the field he lives in and has plenty manners in all settings.

Does anyone have any stories about their breeding season so far?

How about you Neil, do you breed all those black horses yourself? How in the world do you afford all those horses Neil/ They are beautiful and a joy to see working, but I can’t imagine them paying for themselves as hitch horses, unless one has a great sponsorship?

[Neil Dimmock]

Well there not all hitch horses for sure, we have one farm chunk blood line that goes back in our family for 100 years, Right now I have three studs, one big hitchy guy we call Rowdy,18+ hands and all move, he is my top biller and Breeds about 15 mares each year, but I have Rock and he is as farm chunk as they come, Right now his breeding pays for all the trimming and wormer for the rest and pays for the pasture that I rent for him, them we have a Young one coming up and I think I’ll start him with 5 or so mares this year.
We pasture breed all the mares, I have got more to do than stand around and watch that, so Good manners is a must, aggressive studs I will not keep. all three are broke to drive and we do in the off season.
Right now with the new foals we have 45, 18 broke teams, all home raised and trained, were hoping for 15 foals this year,5 hitchy and the rest are chunks. last years foals sold for 1800.oo each, I advert them on the net and they were all gone in 48 hours. the teams that I sell start at 10,000+ so they more than pay for them self’s they make me a living, the only sponsor that I can stand is my self!
Neil

[Gabe Ayers]

That is a great price for the horses and well worth every cent, I’m sure. We simply don’t have the customers in the east. People seem to balk at a fraction of that for any work horse these days. That market could help them pay for themselves and your time.

We don’t pasture breed because we don’t have enough paddocks or well fenced areas to put outside mares in with the stallion. We have tried just turning them all in together and it is a dangerous war among the mares in the home herd and they are likely to run somebody through a fence or get injured in the pecking order scuffle. So we just keep the mares in a dry lot, tease them by allowing them to run along side the stallions fence line about 6 feet apart and breed them in a stanchion or breeding stock and send them home as quick as we can get them settled.

Pasture breeding definitely increases the social skills of the stallions. Our resident home grown stallion ran with mares as a yearling and two year old so he developed a clear understanding of yes and no. The new horse is a fool that thinks any mare is something to rush at without having any regard for her body language or serious restraint from the handlers. Once we get a few foals from the horse he will be looking for a home. Unless his get is great he is to much trouble to deal with otherwise. We have worked him in the woods a bit, but he is a pain to keep his mind on the work for the first hour or so and then comes along pretty well. He is of rare imported blood and a good genetic cross on all our domestic mares here at Ridgewind Farm. With the Suffolk horses it is not easy to mate them in an unrelated way. One would think that A.I. is the way to go with so few animals but the expense is great and there is no demand. It only took about ten years to get the Assn. to put an A.I. program in place and it is under utilized in my experience.

Now, that brings up another question. What is a good price for a breeding fee for a DNA blood typed registered draft horses. I am charging the same thing I did twenty years ago ($300.00). For us it is a matter of if we charge more, people just simply won’t breed the mares. Unfortunately many of the mare owners are hobby folks and don’t put a high value on having more horses.

Maybe the key is to simply charge more since it seems when a customer does come along the price is not the issue as much as the breeding being one of a good cross of genetics and type.

What percentage of your Percheron’s are registered and how do you feel that influences their value/sale price? We do breed lots of grade mares because the people that have them actually work them and their economics don’t allow any extra cost, since they don’t usually sell the offspring but keep them to work.

Glad you are here Neil. I enjoy your work with the horses and have seen your video of working in the bush with them, no doubt you can do anything you want with them.

Let me know what you all think about a good breeding fee.

PS –
An upcoming story will be what happens when we pick a young big black molly mule donated to the foundation and try to make it useful. It is a pet that was “green broke” and now is a backyard pet that thinks the only thing people are for is to feed them licorice by hand. Going to be interesting. She will be for sale once we get some kind of handle on her and at least started or restarted to drive and ride. Stay tuned to DAP, it may be a good story.

[Neil Dimmock]

Its in no small part that I get what I get because of who I am and what I do with my horses, every one that has came and bought horses from me hunted me down and came to look!
Breeding top hitch horses is like winning the lotto, only one in 15 show promise, prefect gate etc, but if you breed for a easy mind and not just for looks then they are very useful horses any way.
Breeding fees range from 500.oo for a grade mare to 850.oo for registered,
papered foals that are of good confirmation and easy minded always bring a premium, 20% to 50% more.
Right now I have 8 reg mares 6 of breeding age, but papers don’t mean a thing if there not correct conformation.
the market is a little slower right now but selling horses is like the stock market, as soon as it looks a little ruff every one whats to get out and they flood the market, as soon as the herd has cleared out then the price come back up

[Plowboy]

Jason, too bad about Sabre he looked to have promise but I guess his age was against you. Nothing beats owning an animal in it’s formative years. The handling makes the learning process so much easier. It seems the older they are when the training begins the more bullheaded and set in their ways they become. With a stallion you also have to deal with hormones also which is interesting also. An old timer once told me that “A rank stud horse can make you pretty damn nervous”. I hope he gives you some nice offspring to offset your efforts of trying to train him. Whenever I see this happen I wonder how much better the horse would have been if the previous owner had taken the time to train the basics. Sort of gets me when I see exceptional horses sold as outlaws because someone didn’t know what to do or didn’t take the time to do it. Oh well maybe he’ll get better and you can keep him but I bet he’ll never be like old Rudy.

[ngcmcn]

Jason, and Neil,

I’ve been looking for a chunky 16.3 and under Percheron stud for a while. Every one in Central Maine seems to have hitch type tall stallions which are nice but not what i’m after. I have a chance to buy a a stud colt in the the next six months or so that come s from a blocky mare and a chunky stallion, (16,3) The owner won’t breed out any more or i would take mares up there. the stud is too old and has been injured in a tender spot over the last couple years. So, I have limited experience with stallions, aside from helping with a few breedings at a friend/ breeder of Percherons. he does little traing but knows how to handle the big boys. I will be in touch with him to.

I’ve been told that that bulls that get in with a herd early and aren’t isolated from the cows actually are better adjusted critters then ones that are just isolated. Is this true with with horses.? I have a very dominant mare whom i suppose would put a young stud in his place quickly up to a point then i’d have to seperate further down the road. Buying a weanling stud would give me the chance to handle him alot and actually do some training. And i could at least see where his head is at. When would it be okay to breed a young stud if i do go this route? Two years? What do you guys think?

This forum is great. Learning is the name of the game!
Hey Jason, Your an Rock and Roller. How’d you get your 8-Track mounted on your Log Arch? Plans???

Thanks Guys
Neal McNaughten
Unity, me.

[Neil Dimmock]

Neal I have some! I’ll try and post some pics.
Neil

[Gabe Ayers]

Well, Plowboy, you are right Sabre would have been better if handled when younger and maybe turned out with mares as a two year old or even a yearling.

This is what I have done with my stallions for years. They learn yes from no and how to read the mares from a distance, so they don’t tend to rush them when they are restrained in a breeding stanchion. This horse is rank around the mares for sure, although I don’t get nervous, I do get mad and want to skin his head to keep some level of control about the experience. We have tried about every restraint I can think of to keep him from rearing prematurely and rushing the mare. We are using two handlers (my son and me), one with a chain over the nose and one under the chin and it is still an absolute struggle to keep his feet on the ground until he is beside the mare and not rearing twenty feet away from her. The last effort included a gum chain as well as the chain over the nose and that helped some. It is just a spoiled brat thing because once the mounts her once he becomes much easier to control. The sad part is that he doesn’t enter the mare without assistance. Maybe this is why it is called hand breeding? He seems to be a bit to long to get that done without help. I have no idea how he ever got a mare bred in the field. I had heard from a previous owner or keeper of this horse that he was impossible around mares and I know what they are talking about now. I have only bred two mares with him so far and don’t look forward to all the others yet to be bred to him.

Now the sad part is that the first mare (Ruby) we bred him with three times is now back in heat. She is our alpha mare and not strong heated anyway and only came to the fence across from him twice and then went out again. Of course the 90 degree weather may not be helping. I was tempted to turn her in with him this morning but she didn’t show signs when teasing her with Rudy on the way to Sabre’s paddock. So we will wait 15 more days and try her again.

I promised my partner on this horse that we would do the best we could to get some offspring from him, but there are never any guarantees with livestock. This horse is a mild mannered soft mouth horse in harness and at work single, so I was thinking I might try to put the lever bit on him and drive and lead him to the mare simultaneously. Any ideas on this or any other way to have effective control on this horse would be appreciated.

I am certainly not hand breeding for entertainment. I just think it is the safest way to get mares in foal without injury to either horse. The challenge here is to not have injury to the handlers too. Unless you have a big field I have seen horses get run through fences when field breeding. We live in the mountains and have all small fields.

I may just turn the boss mare in with him next time and let them work it out or not, we will see. I have about 4-6 more mares that would best be bred to him as they are sisters or daughters to/of our senior stallion old Rudy, who isn’t that old, being a 94 model.

Rock and Roll, well sure, but that is an after work experience and I am lucky to keep myself on the arch and not a radio or my 8 track. Those arches do turn over occasionally so I wouldn’t want to tear up my sound system…. I actually love the sounds of the forest better than any music I have ever heard or played anyway…. Music is a dynamic meditation though – when I play, I only think of playing…and on the contrary when I work I try to only think of working.

Keep looking you can find an old work type Perch stallion, just be sure it is one from two work type parents and not just a reject from a hitch horse breeding program so you have a chance to reproduce that type of horse and not get a high knee action tall horse from breeding him. Neil knows what he has and probably can help you find what you are looking for.

Good luck to all, let me know if you have any ideas. I was considering trying a war bridle on the stud to see if that got some strong signal on his head when approaching a mare. What do you all think?

[Plowboy]

I have a friend with a good 17 hand Stallion that is real quiet. He is 7 and only been driven a little but is very quiet natured and passes that on to his offspring. We have two foals out of him and both are docile and good learners. I think when Dan gets old enough to work with his sister we will have one hell of a walking plow team. They are both easy going and will walk slow. It’s a hike from central Maine but I could email you some photo’s if you’d like to see him. At least you’d know there are a few out there.

[ngcmcn]

Sure,I’d love to take a look at him.

Thanks.

Neal Mcnaughten
Unity, me.

[Neil Dimmock]

havent got over to take pics of the stud colts but this is one our studs that we breed our farm chunks to

[Neil Dimmock]

In the 100 + years that we have had Percheron’s we have never had a mare run through the fence, I checked it out with Dad, I start the young studs with the older mares so they learn to court rather than bully and I dont have any studs that I cant not walk up to and catch nor do I have any that ripe up mares, I guess if your selling semen it might be worth fooling around with them but just to breed I think let horses be horses!

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[TinaY]

I spent my teenage years working for a very large Quarter Horse breeder (12 stallions – 50-60 foals annually). Most of the herd mares were bred to foal in late spring April-June, so we wouldn’t have to worry about the weather. People who were interested in show horses were breeding to get a mare to foal in early January, to have a size jump on the competition. When are people foaling drafts? I’m kind of thinking that it might be nice to have a late summer baby, so that I can spend the long lonely winter on groundwork.

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