Stub Guards on Outer Shoe?

[Does’ Leap]

Has anyone ever tried this? We are finishing up our last round of haying and I was facing some challenging conditions – a fertile pasture that had never been mowed. This pasture had been clipped several times over this summer, so there was some decomposing clipped grass along with the lush growth. My inner-stub guards were cutting well with minimal clogging and most of my clogging was occurring on my outer shoe. I have a few stub guards which I could have installed on the outer shoe, but I was in “get-er-done” mode. I finished up and moved on to another meadow – my third cut on this field – with nary a clog. Any insights or info appreciated.

George

[Donn Hewes]

Hi George, Stub guards don’t plug as easily. but they also don’t mow quite as well. I wouldn’t solve for mowing in the conditions of all the previous layed down clippings. Anything you do to improve that will weaken the performance under more normal conditions. The outer shoe is a common area of poor performance. Sometimes the outer shoe ledger is not sharp, or the hold down is loose. But those old clippings will never be easy to mow. I almost never clip a field more than twice in one year, and I never try to take hay off a field that was previously clipped, because I don’t want to rake all that up and put it in the hay.

[Does’ Leap]

Hi Donn:

Thanks for the response. Whenever I work on a mower (only 3 to date), I replace the inner an outer ledger plates. I bought serrated ledger plates from Brubakers a while back. Is that what you use? When I was plugging at the outer shoe the other day, I did tighten down my hold-down, but to no avail.

I usually don’t mow fields for hay that I have previously clipped, but we have been in a drought here so our yields have been lower than average. I had to venture out into new territory. Goats are generally good (or bad depending on your perspective) about picking our the more palatable portions of hay – the rest we throw on the pack as bedding. Why not clip multiple times on ground you are using for pasture? I will clip my pasture ground 2-3 times per year.

I think I will keep a couple of stub guards on the mower in case I face similar conditions in the future. It won’t take long to switch out the regular guards and give it a try.

George

[mitchmaine]

george, there is a special section for the end of the knife on our mower conditioner. its a double section (or it has two points). thats the best way i can describe it. it has three rivet holes, but two are standard length, so i have always thought it would attatch to the end of a horse knife. and i have always wondered how it would work on a horse mower. its job is to keep the end from plugging. it runs a little longer than the knife and sticks out through the shoe a little and breaks up the ball of grass that makes in the hole in the shoe. don’t know if it would help you or end up a wild goose chase. but there it is. best wishes, mitch

[Mike Rock]

I have bought two #9’s lately and both had the double teeth on the end of the bar.

Does Leon Brubaker have a catalog or is it just call and hope?

Mike Rock

[Does’ Leap]

Mitch, I think I already have what you are describing. It is a double knife section with one standard knife and one skinny knife with 3 rivet/bolt holes. Same thing?

Mike, I have called Brubakers and they call back. At some point we connect. If I were to set up another mower, I would order through Donn Hewes (see above) – a wealth of knowledge and easily reachable.

Donn, I never expressed how much I like my dolly wheel. Thanks for the tip. D-ring or no, those horses are carrying the weight of the mower on their backs without the dolly. I know a person on the mower helps with the weight, but it is still heavy. I also like not having to dead-lift 80 lbs every time I hook onto the mower.

George

[Donn Hewes]

Hi George and Mitch, I do clip pastures more than once, but seldom more than twice. I feel I get diminishing returns when the plants stop rushing to go to seed. Also all the previously clipped grass makes it harder and harder to mow. In a drought year like this I usually make less hay, and use those hay fields for pasture in the fall. I also can buy a few bales if I need them.

I have seen those two pointed knife sections on the end of many mowers. I have never seen one that fit right. I think on the haybine there is a larger covered area on the end; that way the knife going past the end doesn’t try to draw grass in from the outside of the shoe (no cutter there). I personally don’t like the idea of the double cuttter and don’t see a benefit to them for our mowers. I have seen poorly adjusted, loose, and over reaching double cutters (my new name for them) that definitely made a mower plug on the end. Just my two cents.

[nihiljohn]

Will some one please define “stub guard”. I just bought a used knife from my amish friend that does a little rebuilding / parts business. It had the double cutter section on the outer end and it is working great in some pretty rank conditions. I also cut a couple acres of 3rd cutting with some pretty fine grass and it did very nice work. My mower (IH #9) came with the original evener hook set up. As per the book by L.R. Miller, I set it at the top hole to help lift the tongue and with me in the seat and the mower in the hay, the neck yoke floats, with no pressue on the horses most of the time.

[Donn Hewes]

Hi John, I would agree that most of the weight is taken care of in the set up. I hate to admit it, But I would put the dolly wheels on my mowers just for the ease of hooking up. Because of clipping I hook up to a mower many more times than I would for just hay making.

A stub guard is a guard for the inner end of the bar. Folks usually use one, two or three personal preference. Three is the easiest to put on with haybine guards (needs an odd number), two seems perfect, and one is not enough; in my opinion. There are different types but the common one is made from a pea guard with an upturned knife section riveted to it. You get these from Amish dealers. The stub guard you buy at the local tractor store is made for a haybine; has no upturned knife, and won’t cut anything. The idea is there is no point or top to the guard for downed hay or trash to hang on and there for the don’t plug as easily. For most folks once they have used a mower with stub guards, they won’t want to mow with out them. I will try to take a picture one of these days. Your Amish friend may refer to them as turtle guards. Glad to hear the double pointed knife section is working well for you. I am sure they do as I have seen them on a lot of mowers. I just see the ones that aren’t working!

[Donn Hewes]

Hi George, I saw a funny thing last night. I was looking at some Fiords for a friend and I noticed a stub guard on the outer end of a mower! On closer inspection the mower was also missing the outer shoe ledger all together! No stub guards at the inner end, go figure. Truthfully, I didn’t really question him about it. He seemed to think the set up was good. Nice horses and a good looking stud if anyone around NY needs one for their Fiords. Donn

[Does’ Leap]

Hey Donn:

Interesting. I am done haying for the year, but I am going to try it next year if I run into similarly challenging conditions. Other than good ledgers (do you use serrated?), and sufficiently tight hold-downs, is there anything you do to tune up the outside shoe? Do you think that grass is more likely to get caught up and bunched on that outer shoe? I found that I could carry a load of grass on the outer shoe and sometimes it would drop off and I could keep mowing, other times no (time to stop and clear).

George

[Jay]

George,
In my experience, for what it’s worth, when I put a good ledger in the outer shoe and made sure it is level with the rest of the ledgers(ie the shoe is not bent- I found one that way after I had spent time getting it set…) the problem has gone away when it used to bother me alot. Jay

[Donn Hewes]

One of the things that happens with the shorter greener grass of second cutting is grass caught between the outer shoe and the grass board. Watch the grass load up and dump off the grass board of Jays mower in the video from last weekend. These clumps are annoying even when you don’t plug as they need to be spread out (tedder), they can also lead to plugging. Perhaps you should try taking the grassboard off sometime when you are having these problems on the outer shoe. Also grabbing stuff low in the grass may also be helped by tipping the bar up. Hate to do that when you are already cutting short grass though. Just ideas.

[J-L]

I agree totally with you guys on the stub guards. My #9 is set up with three of them and the swather guards, good set up. Those stub guards give you plenty of lee way and save a hell of a bunch of unplugging the inside guards.
My outer shoe doesn’t plug all that much. I went and studied it and it’s set up like Donn describes, good and level with the other guards, with a good ledger.
I too noticed the little bit of fine grass left with the stub guards but I would definitely recommend them regardless.

[Does’ Leap]

Interesting discussion and ideas. I believe my outside shoe it set up well – new ledger level with the guards, shoe straight and securely fashioned, sharp knife sections etc. I mowed 20 acres with this new set up (have previously used the easy cut) without plugging at all on the outside shoe. It was when I ran into these challenging conditions (heavy, wet grass on a previously clipped field) that I ran into problems. A few years back I faced similarly challenging conditions after spreading several tons of composted poultry manure/acre. It was a wet year and I could not get the hay off when I wanted to. When I finally did get to cut, I had a ton of wet, lush grass with this semi-rotten undergrowth (orchard grass) and I couldn’t go 15 feet without plugging:mad:.

I think Donn is right that I shouldn’t set up my mower for these unusual conditions, but I would like a strategy when I do face them (we are scheduled to have another load of poultry manure delivered by the end of this week). Seems like stub guards on the outer shoe and possibly removing the grassboard are worth a try, although I think mowing without a grassboard would be a challenge.

Donn, I noticed what you described on Jay’s video right away. It could have been me carrying along those bunches of grass saying a prayer to the mower god that they would fall off so I could keep mowing. This discussion brings to mind that mowing hay really sharpens the skill of team and teamster. There is a lot going on and all at one time – great thing to do with horses.

Cheers.

George

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