Train My First Yoke of Oxen or Buy a Yoke of Oxen to Train Me?

[jbpiii]

Howdy All,

I am going to be getting started in farming with draft animals soon. I took the Oxen Basics class at Tillers International last year, so I am not completely green. I was looking for advice on my first yoke of oxen. Do y’all recommend I buy some calves to train up for my first team, or should I buy a team that is already trained like those listed on Rural Heritage? I was leaning towards getting a team that is already trained to some degree, thinking that they will end up teaching me.

Thank you in advance for your input.

[f3farms]

James,
i am sure alot of people will not agree with me on this but i know that the ponies that we raised from foals and broke are much easier to handle.we know everthing they know because we taught it to them.you both will learn along the way, but in the end i think its much more rewarding.an experienced team will/ can teach you alot.but we as humans do not learn from animals as easily as animals learn from us.again just my experience.
Rob

[Droverone]

The formula would be to find a grown team that you could get the teamster to aid you in getting all the nuances for that specific team, and while you have a great team to help, start a pair of calves to bring along to your specific requirements! There are a some good teamsters that will be invaluable in aiding in you learning to use the teams they sell, especially when they know that their teams are going to productive homes, with enthusiastic new teamsters.

[Andy Carson]

I agree completely with Droverone. I did just the same thing this year. I got a grown team this spring and plan to start a pair of calves whenever they are born. I will likely be making a trip up to NY/New England to pick up the calves sometime this year. I’ll let you know when I am going and perhaps we can car-pool and split gas. My calves won’t take up much space, and I would likely have room to haul back a team (as long as they aren’t huge). The pickings are slim in western PA, and you will likely have to travel a ways to find a mature trained team. Do you have your eye on a team? What breed are you looking at?

P.S. Don’t count on the team training you. They are probably going to challenge your leadership sooner or later, and you are going to have prove yourself a confident and capable leader and trainer. Spending time with the previous owner is a good thing and I’m sure your class with help a lot.

[Droverone]

Where are you located in Tennessee ?

[Vicki]

I’m glad to hear you are considering ox power for your farm! There’s no right answer about starting steers or getting trained ones, but consider the pros and cons of each.

Countymouse is doing it probably the most ideal way, but not everyone can do that. My opinion: train your own from young calves and learn together. They will bond with you and read you like a book, and you will read their every nuance. They will learn to do the jobs you want done, how you do them, in the place you are, under your leadership. They will be YOURS. Find mentors either in person, and/or by email and forums like this.

A trained team may be trained for something other than what you want them to do. It just depends. They may be champions at scoot competitions, but can’t work for hours in the woods or in the field with various equipment. They may pull like carzy, but don’t know how to hitch to a tongue. So find out what the team you are considering actually does. If you’re a capable trainer/driver, they can certainly learn new tasks and routines from you, but you will encounter ingrained habits which can be frustrating and mysterious. It will take time for them to read your cues also, and they will test your leadership qualifications.

There are advantages and disadvantages to each option. My preference is to have my own oxen for whom I am the primary driver/trainer. An experienced team can be good education, too, especially after you get some experience yourself, but I think it’s easier to learn to lead working cattle by training them.

[Tim Harrigan]

I am not sure there is a right answer to this, it depends on the situation. A big problem I see is that calves often do not get the attention and consistent work that they need. In such cases it might be best to find a good 4-H started team and go from there. Here is a link to an earlier thread where this was discussed. In post #17 I recounted some good points made by Katy Huppe a few years ago in a RH article:

http://www.draftanimalpower.com/showthread.php?3459-Thinking-seriously-about-starting-with-oxen…&highlight=huppe

There are many things involved in bonding with and reading a team, owning them for the first 6 or 12 months is not always the most important thing.

[Droverone]

I am going to be getting started in farming with draft animals soon.

The important fact of this thread is this sentence.

I do farm with oxen, and I do train calves. If this person is seriously going to to do farm tasks with oxen then that is what he needs, then he needs to bring on a pair of calves of his own training. I do not know of any breed that as calves can do farm work in any capacity for several years. My mentors Howard Van ord and Bud Kluchnik, showed me that your desire to do more and more can lead to overusing and souring a pair of calves. Some new englanders are only pulling or showing but both Howard and Ray Ludwig sold “Using teams ” last year and they would have ideal for this theoretical situation! I have watched many people, like Tim Harigan said, that do under work their young teams and then seem perplexed at the fact that they will not do the assigned tasks. There are great teams out there if you look and spend the time and ask the tough questions. If you don’t get an answer that suits you, keep looking.

Ps

And make sure you get good new yokes, good equipment is cheaper in the long run.

“Life on a farm is a school of patience,
* * * * * you can’t hurry the crops*
* * * * *or make an ox in two days”

[Oxhill]

I think everyone has made valid points and the truth is that there is no clear answer because it depends on many variables. If you have the time and skill to start your own team then a team you start has more potential. They will be trained as you want and if you bottle feed them you will bond better with them. Many teamsters say the first team they trained was their best. However you can’t teach them what you don’t know. If you need the power and stamina of a mature team soon then obviously you should buy a started team. If you do buy a team I think you need to be very selective. It is a given that you need to select a well trained team. A older team that is more set in their ways and less spirited will test you the least. Such teams tend to be less active if you are going to work them. A younger more active team is going to test you more and you will need to earn their respect. If you buy any team make sure to negotiate at least a day to spend with the old teamster and your new team and pay attention to detail. I don’t think I have ever seen a purchased team that works completely as well for the new owner as they did for the original trainer. None of this is meant to sway you one way or the other. It is just food for thought. There is too many variables and pitfalls for either way to guarantee success.

[Baystatetom]

Everybody here has made great points. I prefer to train my own but that requires waiting a solid three years before they can be worked for any duration. However I did manage to get a good bit of work out of my two year olds this past spring. If you do decide to buy a older team be sure you know what they were broke for. I had several show teams that followed every command and put on a great performance in the show ring, however they would baulk at a heavy load. When breaking my current team I concentrated on pulling and put less time into the fancy stuff. The result is a team that will give me 110% on every load but isn’t necessarily well behaved in public. I don’t care if I have to yell “step in” four times before they do it as long as they pull the log they are hitched to all the way from stump to landing. My point is, decide what is important to you and make sure the team you are buying fits the bill.
~Tom

[jbpiii]

Thank you all for your input.

I am currently living less than 10 miles north of the city limits of Memphis, TN. I will soon be moving to western PA, hopefully in less than a month.

It sounds like my best bet is to try to get both an older 4-H trained team and a pair of calves to train.

At this point, I haven’t decided on a particular breed. The honest truth is that I don’t really know that much about breed selection. As an adult, I have no personal experience with cattle outside of the Tillers Oxen Basics class. I believe I would stay away from Ayrshire because Mr. Ludwig’s book reports they have a tendency to kick. I think I would stay away from Jerseys because several people at Tillers and the MODA gathering made that recommendation. Other than that, I don’t know. I decided long ago that I wanted to stick with a heritage breed that hasn’t been changed much through modern breeding practices. I am leaning towards Milking Shorthorn or Milking Devons. What concerns me about shorthorns is the number of genetic defects that Shorthorns are susceptible to. I realize it’s not such a big deal of you only buy steers for oxen, but since I want to farm sustainably, it makes sense to me to find a way to perpetuate my ox supply by starting a small herd of whatever breed I end up with. At that point the genetic issues may become a factor. Devons don’t seem to have the genetic defects but I was advised to stay away from Devons for my first team because they would likely outsmart me if I was not sure of myself and what I am trying to do. The Ancient White Park intrigues me because several centuries of natural selection would seem to have eliminated many of the undesirable traits, but I have never heard comments for or against the Ancient White Park.

What do y’all think about getting heifers for a first pair of calves to train? At least if I started training a team of heifers and I messed up, I could still use them as breeding stock and would not have trained steaks.

The idea of watching while the owner has the oxen demonstrate their capabilities sounds like a great idea. Is that a normal thing for an oxen seller to do?

How old do oxen have to be before they settle down and just do what you tell them without really testing you?

[Oxhill]

Milking Shorthorn and Milking Devons are two of the best breeds in my mind. The differences between them can all be positives or negatives depending on what you are looking for. In my opinion Shorthorns are not dummy but Devons are smarter. Devons are smaller making them a little more handy unless you really need the bigger Shorthorn. I like being able to see over them. Devons are quicker to cover ground. Some people say that Devons are too fast for them to keep up but if you are going to do field work and are in shape I would say it would be a positive. Good and bad specimens of either breed can be found. Devons are generally considered to be more hardy. I tried my best not to be too bias.

There are several teams listed on Rural Heritage that sound good but I don’t know any of them. A phone call or email to some of the 4-H leaders would also be a good idea. They should be able to point you to a well trained and well conditioned team.

Practicing your training skills on heifers is a fantastic idea.

Anyone selling oxen should be more than happy to give you a lesson with the cattle. Don’t have them just demonstrate their capability. I would try to get them to send you some video of that before you make a deal if possible. Have them teach you how to drive your new oxen. Pay close attention to how they drive. What specific commands do they use? How do they use their voice, goad, and body position? How do they house, feed, yoke and hitch them?

I welcome yinz to the Burgh even though I just moved out an’ ‘at! GO Stillers!

[Vicki]

Welcome to the region, jbpiii. You can’t get much better mentors than the VanOrds, and they are in western PA. Countymouse is there, too. I’m in eastern Ohio closeby.

As Andy said, ask lots of questions when shopping for a team (of which there are several for sale and probably will be more in the fall.) Get driving lessons, and maybe even videotape the owner driving them for your future reference. That is normal in the ox world.

Milking Shorthorns generally are excellent for oxen (though they usually get too tall for my preference.) Tillers in MI has a herd of the older good genetics specifically chosen for temperament and conformation as oxen; and I think they have some hiefers for sale. Don’t discount cross-breeds either. Glad you’re considering heritage breeds. Training heifers is a great idea; they can work, as Andy will tell you. Even if you later train steers, it’s great to have your brood cows trained.

[Author]

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