Training cow horns?

[Vicki]

Tonya, most dexters grow a nice set of widely curved-in horns on their own if left alone. Some environmental things can misshape them, like if they rub against something every time at the feeder. Mine had one droop because he had a wart at the base of the horn at a year old. I just caution you not to overreact or act too soon to “correct” her horns. If they really are straight up, I’ve not seen that, and you could do a little scraping. Usually the young ones have horns straight out vertically, like a set of mountain bike handlebars! But after 18 mos. or so they begin to develop the upward/inward curve.

If you want to scrape, use the edge of a piece of broken glass, or a knife I suppose, on the inside topside of her horns. Just scrape a little of the shell from base toward tip. The horns are growing fast if she’s young, so watch and repeat a bit if you think you need to. I think the dynamic in this is that by thinning thus weakening slightly the shell of the horn on one side, the shell on the other side “tightens” more, the scraped side can expand a bit, changing the arc of the curve to widen where scraped
I messed around a bit with my dexters horns and wish I hadn’t. The one I never messed with but to clean and sand a bit for grooming, has more handsome set. Except the one whose horn drooped, I rigged a pulley over his tie area, and weighted the horn up with a half gallon of water, just overnight for a few months. It brought that horn up enough so the droop is barely noticeable. He was about 2 when I did that.

[Rose]

Hi,
I’m new here and registered to get more information about the horn training device. I did do a search and couldn’t find a source for them. Does anyone have more information about them, or know of someone that uses them? Thanks!

[March Hare]

Vicki,

Thanks for the info, so nice to learn from a voice of experience. “Annie” was a year old in February. You are right, her horns grew an amazing amount over the past summer, as did she. I have to laugh when I see her sometimes, as she looks almost surprised. Her horns are 8 – 10 inches from the base to tip, spread about that far too, and have the slightest curve out then straight up from her curly head! She is quite adept at using them too. She is the low man on the totem pole in our “herd” (2 steers and another cow) and she uses them to get our mini donkey to back off (he thinks he is king).

The outsides of the horns are dull and peeling looking, I think I will try sanding them a bit, and maybe be a little more aggressive on the “off side” and just wait and see. My daughter shows her, as do I, and I am planning to order some horn knobs, as shows require they be knobbed or tipped, and personally I think cutting them down to big ends looks shabby.

I will try to figure out how to post a picture of her horns, maybe that will help explain why I would like to modify their growth a bit.

Thanks again!
Tonya
Middle Age Spread Dexters
March Hares Rabbitry
http://www.MarchHaresRabbitry.com

[Vicki]

Brass knobs on dexters look terrific!

[Patrick]

@Rose 12904 wrote:

Hi,
I’m new here and registered to get more information about the horn training device. I did do a search and couldn’t find a source for them. Does anyone have more information about them, or know of someone that uses them? Thanks!

http://www.newenglandoxsupply.com/

[becorson]

On the subject of safety: people do get killed by cattle, it’s true– although not as many as horses. And when cattle DO injure or kill people, most often the cattle are dehorned or polled. a big animal doesn’t have to have horns to injure you. I think dehorning gives some people a false sense of security.
Horns serve a purpose: they may help to regulate temperature in the brain.

[Howie]

becorson
That is so true, and that is why an animal with horns is so much smarter than one without horns.;):)

[OldKat]

@Howie 12962 wrote:

becorson
That is so true, and that is why an animal with horns is so much smarter than one without horns.;):)

I use to hear the oldtimers say about cattle with and without horns; “No horns, no brains”. Although I have heard this all my life, I went with a polled breed because they are more docile than the locally available alternatives and will generally stay inside the rotten old fences of the places I lease. Of course, I’m not trying to make oxen out of them.

[dominiquer60]

I would like to train my shorthorns horns to turn slightly down and inward. My family is not keen on horns at all and I would like to do a little training so that the tips are less of a nuisance, both to humans and getting their heads in or out the stanchions and feeders. After reading this post again, I know that I have to scrape on the opposite side that I want it to turn. My question is how much should I scape way?

Also as far as training them to be respectful of humans with their horns, my theory has been to only touch the horns when necessary and to do so in a respectful and non-harassing/teasing manner.

One person here likes to grab a horn and rough it up a little as if the calf was the dog and the person wants to rough house a little. I have asked nicely a couple times to not do this because it promotes unwanted behaviors. Of course since I don’t have nearly the cattle experience that this person has, I get laughed at 🙁
Am I crazy for my “respect” approach, is there something else that I could do better?

Thanks in advance for your help,

Erika

[Tim Harrigan]

Erika,
I agree with you, that behavior is teaching your steers behavior that you will have to correct so they are not helping you. Cattle rough house with their horns so anytime you engage in that type of behavior I think it is going to confuse them. Doing this is not at the top of my list of things not to do, and I think they will quickly learn not to mess with you, but I think it could make them more aggressive with strangers because strangers and kids have a tendency to scratch them on the forehead like a dog. It depends on the temperament of the steer, it would be nice if whoever is doing this would respect your wishes a little more. Maybe a jab in the ribs or a whack on the nose would help?;)

As far as the horns, I say unless they are way out of whack don’t do anything with them until they are at least two. They might look like they are growing up and out, but you really do not know in many cases what the horns are going to do on their own. When I think of my Will and Abe, I would never had guessed even at two what their horns would look like at six. If I had messed with them I would have probably screwed them up.

When they get to be four and you think they need to tilt down then you can put some weights on them.

This will certainly annoy some people, but I do not believe horn scraping or filing has much effect, if any at all. I know you can cite it in the literature, and I have not made any concentrated effort to change the shape of my steers horns by doing it, but I have filed their horns differently because of damage and other things and have not seen any difference in the shape of the horns. I think this belongs in the ‘old wives tales’ category. What would it take to convince me otherwise? Take a steer and sculpt his horns by scraping. Start with a yearling that looks like he will have symmetrical horns and by scraping turn one out and one in, or one up and the other down, I don’t care, just explain what you intend to do and how, predict the results and document it with pictures.

Oh yes, to answer your question, the theory is that filing or scraping removes horn and thus encourages faster horn growth in that area. The differential horn growth is to change the shape. For instance, if you want the horns to curve in, file the outside radius, increase horn growth on the outside and they will turn in. Possibly, but it is likely they will turn in whether you file or not, and I think you will find they turn in even if you file the inside radius. I like good theories and I like them even more when they are backstopped by proof. This scraping process just does not ring true with me based on what I have seen.

[dominiquer60]

Thanks Tim,
They do respect me with their horns, even when they are out with Dick and Jane rough housing, if they point a horn as i approach they quickly get the finger and a stern “Hey,” and I am quickly taken out of the cross hairs. I am not ready to tap my soon to be father in law on the nose yet, maybe after the wedding if he persists 🙂

Erika

[Tim Harrigan]

@dominiquer60 26034 wrote:

Thanks Tim,
I am not ready to tap my soon to be father in law on the nose yet, maybe after the wedding if he persists 🙂

Erika

Well, as long as you know you have that in your toolbox that is the important thing.

[Andy Carson]

So here’s some speculation on the shape of cattle horns that may or may not be important. Oxen are certainly not my area of expertise, but I can’t resist.
One functional aspect of horns that I seen mentioned from time to time is their ability to dissipate heat and cool the animal. This is a little hard for me to completely accept, as the surface area of the horn is (as least in most cattle) so small in relation to the surface area of the rest of the animal. It is, however, not covered in insulating hair and/or fat, and is highly vascular, so perhaps it is important. You do see very large and long horns on some cattle from tropical areas, which is another sign that it might be important… Still, many of these animals have loose skin which might help too… Either way, let’s just say (for the sake of argument) that horns are indeed an important cooling mechanism.
Assuming this cooling aspect is important, both the size and the shape of the horns would have important implications for cooling. When hot horns are in contact with cool air, there are two mechanisms for heat transfer, conduction and convection. If there is any air movement at all, the contribution of conduction is negligible and convection is the only mechanism worth considering. Newton’s law of cooling states that the heat transfer (dQ/dt) from a solid surface of area (A), at a temperature (Tw), to a fluid of temperature (T), is governed by the equation dQ/dt= h*A*(Tw-T). Some of this is obvious; a greater surface area of the horn and/or colder air will yield greater heat transfer… One interesting (and maybe not so obvious) factor is just how important and variable the factor h (or the heat transfer coefficient) is in determining total heat transfer. Heat transfer coefficients for free convection are less than 25 W/m2K as air movement is determined by the buoyancy of the hot air surrounding the cooling object. The buoyancy of 100 degree air (from horns) in an environment of 75 degree air would be very small and yield tiny levels of air flow. Forced air movement over the horns (from walking or swinging of the head) would likely dominate the heat transfer equation with coefficients of 20-200 W/m2K. I think this makes good sense. Hot soup takes a long time to cool unless you blow on it. Hot pieces of metal cool a lot faster when you wave them around in the air. It does make a big difference in these examples.
So how might horn shape affect this? Relatively small movements of an animal’s head are translated into relatively large movements at the ends of horns that extend for away from the center of the head. These large movements would be translated to higher air velocities towards the end of the horn and would yield disproportionately large levels of heat transfer. Let’s consider some specific examples. An ox might have a head width of a foot and horns extending another six inches before they curve back to the midline. With the same head movement, the outward curve of the horns of this ox would experience half the wind velocity as a similar ox with horns that extending outward (either laterally or diagonally) 18 inches. An extreme example, such as a Texas Longhorn or Ankole‑Watusi, might experience 3 times the wind velocity of the curved horn ox if their horns extend away from the center of movement by 36 inches.
Again, I don’t know how important horn-mediated cooling is in the first place. If it is, I think the shape of the horns would likely be as important (and possibly more important) than their overall size. The oxen people will have to tell us how important cooling is to the performance of oxen. If they are like horses, then it’s a pretty important factor.

[oxman]

Here, Here, Carl…….right on the money! Got to have the horns! A properly trained animal would not dare touch a teamster with the horns. Others, maybe, but not the teamster.

[hillsidehome]

@Justine 909 wrote:

Hey there people

Also, several people have suggested that owning a milk cow with horns is dangerous:eek:, any thoughts?

Justine,

I’ve owned a milk cow for 2, almost 3 years now, and she has horns. I think any big animal can be dangerous, regardless if they have horns or not. I’ve been stepped on enough times to know! Just teach her to respect your space and she ought to be fine. My Daisy knows that when I’m near/around her, swinging her head is unallowed. I don’t care if she does it out in the field or to a pine tree but it’s another thing when I’m standing next to her or in front of her.

I’d leave the horns. But that’s just me. I like horned cows. 🙂

[Author]

Posts