Trust

[Kevin Cunningham]

Will I ever be able to trust my steers again?

Here is the backstory. My steers are eight months old now and I bottle raised them. I work them every day, most days they are yoked twice a day. They are doing light work on the farm and learning to pull heavier loads all the time. I am also a first time teamster and learning as I go. I have read everything I can get my hands on about oxen as well as other draft animals, horses etc. I have no live mentor and have never even seen a full size ox in person. I am well informed but still making some mistakes along the way. However, overall I feel like I have taken on this project responsibly and with forethought.

So… about a four to six weeks ago I had two incidents that made me question my training. I had two runaways. These were obviously my fault at the time because I was too trusting of the steers. The first time I was feeding a bale of hay off the back of the sled and they bolted. The second time I was unloading chicken feed off the sled and the chickens spooked and in turn they bolted. Both times they had halters on but I did not have the lead rope in my hands. The second time it happened I lost it. I found it impossible to hold my anger and I got really frustrated with them. I made them work it out. I loaded them up and went back to the work at hand after finally catching them. After I cooled my head I realized that it was my fault so I went back to basics. I extended the length of the lead rope so I could hold the lead just in case when I was unloading. And we just started working on it.

Joseph the off steer has always been skittish and most of the time I feel like he is the one causing the runaways just because of the way he acts sometimes. He is the most hesitant and fearful. He is also the one that I just spent $250 at the vet to sew up his shoulder. It all happens so fast that I can’t be sure, but if I am honest with my self I know he is not trustworthy.

Well…. this morning I had another runaway. This was the worst one yet. I have been slowly try to build up the length of time they stand and the distance I can be away from them at a time. I had them hauling a load of rocks from the field that was substantial. This was a load that I thought they couldn’t runaway with. I wanted to start getting them used to not being on a lead. Things were going so well that I started trusting them again. At a certain point on the driveway the sled started to lose some rocks. So I stopped them and figured I would try and get them with out the lead, they were too far away any way. I got the rock and once I started back to the sled the bolted. Most of them rocks fell off but not all of them. Then they pulled the eye bolts out that I attached the chain to. They ran, I ran, they continued across the field and into the neighbors driveway. Down the driveway they went. They almost jumped off the bridge over the creek but stopped there.

I finally got a hold of them them and walk them back to the barn. I was able to control my anger better this time but I am still pissed off. I tied them in the barn and went back to get the sled. I put a new eye bolt on it and got them hooked back on and found all the big heavy rocks I could find. We pulled it across the farm till they were obviously tired out.

I am doing my best here but I feel defeated. I work so hard on these boys, but I am seriously considering that they may never be trustworthy. Is it best to just start over with some new calves this year? I have so much time and money invested in these steers that it is a shame, but I absolutely can’t have runaways. In fact that is part of my decision to have oxen is because I have heard too many bad horse runaway stories. I want my team to be bomb proof for the public and to do real work on the farm. I need a good team that I can trust and right now I don’t know if I will ever be able to trust this one.

Today was a hard day.

[Andy Carson]

I am sorry to hear about your bad day, Kevin. I am a beginner with oxen too, but 8 months old seems so early to give up on a team for a lack of patience. In my mind, they are just babies, with years of growing and maturing to do. This is not meant as a excuse, just an observation. Personally, I think it’s great that you have been able to do as much as you have done. I will let the more experienced teamsters give you more specific advice on this specific problem, but wanted to tell you that when I am (or have) felt discouraged, it was helpful for me to look at difficulties as “opportunities for really meaningful improvements” rather than as “demonstrations of failure.” Thanks for that thought, Mitch (I took the liberty of paraphrasing it). This way of thinking has helped me keep my head cool in some potentially frustrating situations, and perhaps it will help you too, Kevin. 😉

[Tim Harrigan]

Kevin, we had an interesting discussion about run-aways a couple of years ago, Rob’s team is doing real well now. This is a little different situation than yours, but it might provide some insight. I will probably have a few comment later on tonight.

http://www.draftanimalpower.com/showthread.php?2546-Runaway-advice

[Carl Russell]

Two things…… never trust your animals no matter what. If you are trying to train trustworthy animals you might as well stop. They are not computers, and therefore they cannot be programmed to act predictably.

This is not a statement of negativity, just a realistic view.

It is not the job of the teamster to impart trust into animals, rather it is to be as trustworthy as possible.

I don’t think you are being not trustworthy, just don’t blame them if they are not. Your expectations are too high.

Now as far as standing when working, they do not need to be trustworthy to stand. They just need practice. They are young still. I had a profoundly steady pair of working oxen that ran away from me several times when they were that age.

Just find ways to work them without trying to trust them. Unhitch and tie them off when you are not able to attend to their heads. It may not be what you think you want, but they won’t be able to do what you don’t want them to do. Sometimes preventing the worst is a lot better than getting the best.

Carl

[Kevin Cunningham]

I guess it is helpful to know that others have had multiple runaways as well. I know they are young and being my first team I am just finding out how fast or slow they should progress. And after the first two runaways I read though that post on the forum and that helped me enough that I did not post about it then. I guess this time was so much more dramatic and serious that it does make me consider that maybe this team might not work out. Does this happen? If a teamster does their best to train an animal and puts in the time and energy needed is it possible that you just might not have a suitable animal and it is best to cull them? I am not going to make that decision now and I certainly am not giving up yet, but I wonder if anybody had just found a problem too deep to work out.

I does make sense to not frame the problem as one of trust because I agree that you can’t ever fully trust the animal. I guess it is simply my expectations and lack of experience that cause me to push the envelope of how much they can handle. This has been the only major stumbling block along the way. Sure there have been minor problems but nothing that seems as insurmountable as this tendency to bolt.

We need to get a few more calves this year anyway to use our goat milk and get a supply of beef going for the CSA. So I might try my hand a couple more just to see if there is a difference. When I started out with the two I have now I had no expectations, because it was all just an experiment, and they could always be well behaved beef. Many, many hours into the experiement I must have developed some expectations, and maybe some that were a bit too high.

[Doug]

Kevin,

I had two run aways with my team when they were around six months old, both were due to my inexperience and both were pretty scary for me and did quite a bit a damage to my fencing. Like Countymouse I’ll let more experienced Teamsters give you specific advice but don’t give up on that team yet as I’ve been in the same situation and also thought about making burgers out of the boys. The team is now one year old and much steadier and better behaved, do I trust them completely, not by a long shot but they are getting there slowly but surely. I’ve also learned alot more about the animals and the how the act and react with me, give it some more time if you can and good luck!

Doug

[mitchmaine]

carl makes good points. its difficult to expect animals to be thinking in terms of trust and so on. that is abstract thought. neither do i beleive that they try and hatch plans to escape or cause trouble. i think they work on food and security. simple as that. getting them to do our work depends on providing them with security. when they aren’t getting the program, it might not be so much about their learning as it is about our teaching. then what? do something different. try it again another way. i can’t feel confident when i hear specific methods of training animals. you do this and this happens or you do that and that happens. it never works out for me that way. animals are as different as people are and i beleive that. keep trying different things, and when something works, keep doing that, and if it doesn’t, well, keep trying new things. this is starting to sound weird even to me, but i think there is truth in it, so good luck and keep an open mind. mitch

[Kevin Cunningham]

Well, I am not giving up on them yet. Tonight went well but I was watching them like a hawk. I think that all this can be explained by my high expectations of them. In all honestly I think they are progressing quite rapidly because I am able to work them so much. This causes me to expect too much for were they are in their development. It is also due in part to my ignorance of what their levels of development are, because this is my first time raising calves let alone oxen. I will keep working with Joe who is the more skittish, I also think that he will always be skittish and I have to live with that. I will never trust him again. He can also be the most affectionate and the most precocious. I also might start another pair soon because of many reasons, but I won’t give up on this team yet.

[nihiljohn]

I know spit.0 about oxen but I’ve started a lot of colts. If I need to load/unload the colts get tied or the lines stay in my hands. Why? Because long ago I’ve done the same thing. Get a long rope. You can still reach them and get your work done. Their only 8 months old? Hook them twice a day a trust them when they are 4years old. They are still babies. Relax and keep at it. You and they will be fine.

[Vicki]

Kevin, I do not think you must give up on these calves. You are exteremely committed and spending tons of time training them!

I didn’t read the thread Tim referenced yet, so this is my immediate response: One: your calves are very young and their energy level is high and concentration level low, and it is springtime with the world full of greening grass and intereasting distractions. Tie them, face them into a wall, or have a partner to stand with them if you are going to leave your driving position. I couldn’t walk away from my hyper-alert calves for more than an instant until they were over two years old. Two: Running away can become a “learned” response. You absolutely must not let that happen, so do not give them the opportunity. Without them being able to see you in that driving position, they are without a leader, perhaps somewhat anxious without you there, and kind of taking matters into their own “hands.” Three: I had to teach my calves to stand and we practiced a lot. I would stop at a familiar location, give “stand” command, move back along the nigh, touching and repeating “stand”, go around back and come up alongside the off, all the while with hand or goad or voice letting them know i was there and in control, not taking my attention off them at all so I could tap right away if it looked like one was getting ready to move. Maybe the other oxmen would think this being necessary was a bad sign in my calves, but it worked for me. Also, some breeds are “friskier” and more alert than others. What breed are yours, Kevin?

[Vicki]

I read the previous post on runaways. That is some EXCELLENT insight and advice there! Tim, we should publish this in the MODA News and you could write an article for RH.

[Kevin Cunningham]

I agree that the runaway thread is excellent, I have read it several times now. Vicki, my steers are HolsteinXJersey, is it the jersey that would make them more active?

[Head yokes]

We must also keep in mind that not all cattle will make a good ox. That is one reason our forfathers chose oxen if it doesn’t work out they can be used for something else. Young cattle need to develop trust and confort this takes longer for some than others we tend to rush training when things go well. Flight is in their genes and I was told to keep in mind that it is easier to prevent a problem than to correct one. I am one who has had several rides on the yoke of young cattle that decided to drop their heads and run when I was training them as a young fellow.

[Tim Harrigan]

@Head yokes 33999 wrote:

We must also keep in mind that not all cattle will make a good ox….and I was told to keep in mind that it is easier to prevent a problem than to correct one.

I can’t disagree with anything you said, but I do not think we can assume this pair will not make a good team at this point, for many of the reasons already pointed out. But it certainly is better to prevent a problem than correct one. Kevin, for the time being, just focus on not letting them run away again. If you stop them and have to shift your attention, stop and stand them with their heads facing away from home. If you want to get some work done, put a 50 lb pale of rocks on your sled and bring it around in front of them and tie them to it if nothing else is available. If they run, and you chase them and then load them up and make them work their ass off, I guarantee you they do not make the connection between the two activities. Makes you feel better, but this is not about making you feel better. If they run, don’t yell, don’t chase after them. Just walk, circle around and get between them and home if you can, and go back to work. I understand your disappointment, but if you still think these guys are ready for the bone yard, you need to ask yourself if you have the temperament to work with oxen or draft animals.

[Baystatetom]

I can not disagree with anything said here. With previous teams I have had run away problems but not for a very long time now. My last pair was perfect angels for me, never even thought about running away, but when I gave them away to a first time teamster they ran away twice the first week. Not to put the blame on you Kevin, but you will get better. That being said I read an article about some old timer who used oxen for farming and logging his entire life as a profession, he was by all means as expert as you can get, and he spoke of a team he had that was uncontrollable run ways. At age 5 he sold them to a ox puller and started a new team. I guess I am saying your situation will most likely improve with experience, but it could also be a bit to much fire in the team.
Mine don’t run away but they will wonder off if left unattended for more then a minute, I combat this by either chaining them to a tree (while working in the woods) or else turning them around so they face me while I load/unload my sled. This will be a pain if working with a pole rather then a chain. Then again stepping over the pole and hooking up is a good thing to practice anyway.
Best of luck,
Tom

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