very very small farming

[Carl Russell]

Rod, I have extreme chemical sensitivities so I won’t even comment on your plans, except to say that you may want to test how the animals react to the spray. I know that with aerosol or garden hoses, my animals tend to be highly suspicious, and need conditioning to accept the noise with comfort. I find that a machete works great for noxious weeds, both for chopping them down, and for digging/chopping roots.

The DR brush cutter has heavy rubber flaps in front to knock down forward-headed projectiles. Also the cart I have has a solid backing that would add better protection than an ATV, or garden tractor. The only thing holding me back is the COST!!!!

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Jennifer,
I can appreciate the situation you are in. My perspective is shaped by access to hundreds on acres with substantial physical enterprises, so when I think of the practical application of animal power, I come at it from that place.

One of the big stumbling bocks to very small application of animal power, is the routine. Both animal and teamster need inspiration, motivation, and success to develop an approach that will work as well in the field as it looks from the road.

100 years ago many many people had at least some knowledge of working animals so there was lots of light work, like delivery, cultivation, transport, etc… But today the examples, and the knowledge base are missing. I see people who have taken on larger small farming enterprises as having the skills, knowledge, and experience, that will advance the desires that you, and others have.

Having written that, it has occurred to me that using round pens, and other skills that you already possess, you may be able to overcome this hurdle from the other direction. As I have mentioned in other threads, to me it is all about the work, but that is because I have the work. It is also because I have no experience with round pen training, nor the undertaking of very very small projects.

In terms of NEAPFD, I realize that there are many levels to our approach, and I truly try to open myself to what others can bring. I have thought about urban uses, such as trash pick-up, or taxi, etc., but I am beginning to see this topic a little clearer.

Jennifer, as you undertake this process would you think of a presentation, (possibly a panel of others in your boat, with some who have gotten to the next level, and a representation of resource people who you find yourself turning to), covering objectives, techniques, and applications? I think you would be well received. Jean, and Kristin may also want to knock heads on this. There was a post by a school teacher desiring to use a horse for commuting as well.

I think that it would be entirely appropriate that you are a beginner of sorts, because it is clear that your ambition outweighs your inexperience, and that you represent a portion of the public that I have described, who linger on the cusp because they lack the pieces that you are trying to pull together.

NEAPFD is exactly about pulling together pieces of this network to answer obscure questions, and to manifest the resources that facilitate the growth we all know we need.

Let me know what you think. Carl

[Rob FLory]

Hi folks,
Check the photo section for a couple of pictures of single cultivators. Look in the working the single horse section. One is of a rider guiding the horse as Kristin described.

Rob Flory
Howell Living History Farm

[jen judkins]

Thanks Rob, That is a great visual for me in regard to how to ‘cross over’ from riding to driving to get some things simply done. I think part of the problem of being on that ‘cusp’ is the idea that it has to look like the finished product BEFORE you actually accomplish something.

Gorgeous day….I have to go play farmer now! Jennifer.

PS…Carl, I’m still mulling over your thoughts…will comment later.

[Carl Russell]

I think we all go through that stage where we wonder at what point are we actually doing something. It really isn’t about how well it looks, but how well it works. Part of that is our own impression of how well it works, the other part is practice.

If I listened to all the people who told me I looked stupid out there “working the old fashioned way”, I’d be driving a Beemer, chasing women, working on wall street, and doing drugs. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that lifestyle:eek:). The point is that the drive to overcome obstacles, to practice, is the most important aspect to this endeavor.

My main concern about very small, or part-time farming, or light use of draft animals, is the practice. I don’t know whether round pen work can be enough to establish a work routine, but I can see how it might. There has to be some body of work to address regularly that doesn’t require a lot of start up time, or even an allotted time-frame, so that the teamster can develop the skills and the sense of accomplishment, and the animal can trust the request for engagement.

This is not an easy model to create, because as far as I know this is a re-awakening for another aspect of animal power. As difficult as it is to undertake the teamster’s craft in logging or farming, there is always abundant opportunities for practice, and when the lifestyle is molded to that frame-work then there is much more time to dedicate to the effort.

I really think that there are a lot of people who would be energized by demonstrations of success at this level. Carl

[jen judkins]

I’ve been thinking alot about this notion that a small farmer might not have the time or the workload to ‘practice’ the craft of animal powered farming in a meaningful way. I think the point is well made and I certainly see the problem with not having a regular routine, which is so crucial to working with horses, at least in my experience.

I do have some small farmers in my town to observe however. These are people who used to use horse and oxen power much more than they do now. Like most older farmers, they rely more heavily on tractor power now. They do use their animals periodically, particularly for tricky jobs like pulling logs across the lake or out of the woods when the mud is thick. But these jobs are pretty seasonal and therefore sporadic. Most seasons I see their animals at pasture and though I hear them (the farmers) talk about working them, I don’t see alot of action. Now two of these teams, I know have only been recently put together…so we’re not talking about an old seasoned team that has years of experience together (one of them is the mother of my own belgian and recently put into work after a lengthy hiatus). Though the farmer/teamsters obviously do. For training, they generally work their animals on the roads when the weather is cool and the footing is good, pulling a sled with an appropriate load (looks heavy to me anyway)…probably a week or two each spring and fall. Occasionally I see them haul some kids around on the hay wagon.

My point is, though I don’t see much of a routine there, these farmers appear to have success doing a marginal amount of ‘work’ with their teams. Now it may be that they are simply benefiting from many, many years of accumlated practice. In any case, its clear that they possess something I do not…and that is a clear idea how things should and will work…so it does work.

In my own experience in working with any horse is that…it depends. How well any task works will generally depend on the particular horse, depend on the quality of the partnership, depend on the job at hand and a good number of other factors. I have a thouroughbred that needs regular routine work in order for him to perform well and stay steady. I also have an arab cross who I can ride once a month and still be competitive in a 25 mile CTR…its not ideal, but in this case it works. So in looking at the obstacles, I don’t think they are insurrmountable, particularly with some horse savvy and abit of determination.

Though the momentum to get a thing started can be the trickiest part of any endeavor, and I, like others in my situation are susceptible to the effects of deceleration pretty easily. I’m happy to say that this forum has provided me plenty of motivation and I hope to maintain that momentum forward.

My first project (once I have Peanut working in shafts) will be to do some simple, relatively safe jobs, like rake the arena or spread manure. Both jobs would take place within the confines of a fence (so seem like a reasonable goal for this season) and are jobs that could be done fairly routinely, at least weekly. So it is a start.

In regard to formal presentations…I don’t know. I plan to create a diary of sorts in regard to this project on my blog, as I have done in the past with many aspects of my farm. It may be that at the end of 6 months there is enough material there to formulate a presentation or a panel discussion. We’ll just have to wait and see. It is a great idea though!

Jennifer.

[Carl Russell]

My experience has given me some perspective on the difference between “how it looks” and “how it feels”. The point about practice is not about how it looks, but how it feels.

Just as with some horses, some people need very little practice to get on top of something. But determining the required effort by the look of other people’s enterprises is problematic.

The important thing is to find a safe and consistent routine so that the teamster can practice enough (however much, or little) so that they can accomplish the desired task. This is entirely arbitrary.

I used to ask one of my mentors to come over and observe me when I undertook a new level of experience. The thing is that by the time I felt confident enough to ask him, I had a good solid start, and he never said much.

As far as how it looks, Walt Bryan, the man I mentioned above, had one pair of ponies that he took in trade for something. They were rumored to be “killers”. The week after he got them he took them to the pull. First pass by the boat they dragged him 30 feet (still standing) out in font. He sawed until he had them standing on their hinds, and backed them up all the way to the boat, and hitched them. By the end of the pull, he was hitching them every time, and he had sold them. They practically killed the new owner!!!

My basic advice is to get more first hand experience with the equipment you want to work with, but just develop a program, or routine that will get you to where you want to be.
Carl

[Rod]

Good discussion and lots to think about with this small farming thing. I notice in my research that Donkeys are used extensively in the third world on small subsistence farms. These animals are very smart, quick learners, easy keepers, don’t generally need shoes, retain what they learn, safe to be around, don’t eat much, can pull a lot of weight for their size, are very healthy, cheap to buy and live a very long time.
Maybe donkeys are a more practical alternative for the small farm model than the full sized work teams. The challenge which I see for our personal farming situation is to develop appropate sized equipment to use with our donkey team and also to get my mind around new ways of have them help me with my work.
Their are jobs which are just too hard for them but many others that they can do very well and on a small homestead or farm may be just the way to economically utilize animal power. I would love to see more posts on how folks are utilizing these very useful animal servants in their farming practices and about equipment downsizing for them also.
PS: when they are not employed working they make great pets and livestock guards.

[goodcompanion]

Regarding practical application of donkey traction–there is this group based in France called promatta (acronym for promotion of modern agriculture with animal traction) that has developed a neat system of attachments for use with donkeys. It was designed for application in the third world (simplicity, repairability) but they have adherents in europe as well. Probably with the dollar going down the sewer we couldn’t likely afford to import anything from them, but I think they are free with information. If anyone is inclined to pursue this, let me know.

What they are doing there certainly hits the “very very small farming” nail right on the head.

[Rod]

Hi Erik

I am intrested in any information like this. Do you have any web addresses.

[goodcompanion]

http://www.prommata.org/portfiche.php?p=1

Nice pictures on the site and you can basically figure out what the things are. Promatta has a staffed office and is easy to get in touch with. If you want to e-mail them and need it translated, Rod, just let me know. I specialize in french teamster-lingo vocabulary!

[Rod]

Thanks Erik, the picture are helpful enough.

[becorson]

hopefully there are niches for many animal power advocates out there….
i am working on a single horse-powered wheelbarrow at the moment (basically a mini-dump cart).
how about a single-horse scraper for clearing manure out of barnyards and snow out of driveways…..

[jen judkins]

Becorson, Could you post a photo of your contraption…sounds interesting and quite useful. Thanks. Jennifer.

[simon lenihan]

A horse drawn tram is a great idea and i think it could be a viable business in the future, my sons and i visited a little coastal fishing village in cornwall recently, there was no access into the village for anyone other than the residents, we had to park in a car park at the very top of the village but we need not have worried as there was our taxi waiting, horse drawn tram, it would take approx 10 adults, the guy that operated it told me he charged £3 to take passengers to the village end, on our way into the village we met his wife coming the other way with another horse drawn tram. I got the opportunity to have a chat with them when they were packing up for the evening and stabling the horses, they claimed business was down this year due to fact that we have had one of the wettest summers since records began but they were still managing to make a living. In the town of killarney in the south west of ireland there is up to 20 jaunting cars [ small horse drawn tram ] operating trips from the town out to mucross house and along by the killarney lakes, they have been in operation for years and always seem to be doing a triving business. In blackpool in the north of england there are about a dozen horse drawn trams in operation taking visitors along the promenade, it was great to see that most of these trams were operated by women, it was while talking to one of these women that the conversation turned to insurance [public liability ] i was amased that she only had to have cover for 1 millon considering the thousands of people that visit every year, my public liability has to be 5 millon minimum and we have only seen a handfull of folk in the past 3 months
simon lenihan

[Author]

Posts