very very small farming

[Robert MoonShadow]

Could you supply me w/ this contact? I’m new here (DAP), and have a donkey on the way up… I farm an acre (produce) and he’s replacing the Ford tractor = need input & advice; seems like what I need, here. Thanks a bunch!!
@goodcompanion 1457 wrote:

Regarding practical application of donkey traction–there is this group based in France called promatta (acronym for promotion of modern agriculture with animal traction) that has developed a neat system of attachments for use with donkeys. It was designed for application in the third world (simplicity, repairability) but they have adherents in europe as well. Probably with the dollar going down the sewer we couldn’t likely afford to import anything from them, but I think they are free with information. If anyone is inclined to pursue this, let me know.

What they are doing there certainly hits the “very very small farming” nail right on the head.

[sanhestar]

although you all think horses, ponies and donkeys I want to add a well trained pair of goats (wethers, more precisely).

They are low-cost, could clear brushes by eating them as well and can pull a down-sized cultivator without problems (hoegger goat supply offers one).

[goodcompanion]

@Robert MoonShadow 4481 wrote:

Could you supply me w/ this contact? I’m new here (DAP), and have a donkey on the way up… I farm an acre (produce) and he’s replacing the Ford tractor = need input & advice; seems like what I need, here. Thanks a bunch!!

Promatta is based in Rimont, in southwest France. They have an office with regular hours–I don’t know if anyone in the office speaks English.

At one point I was interested in forming a transatlantic draft-farming collaboration network–Promatta was interested in the idea and quickly invited me to to a tour of their member farms. But I never followed up, had two kids instead. Point is, they are very serious and professional and friendly.

Their website is http://www.promatta.org, and you can see what methods they use with the pictures there. The address and phone are:

Association PROMMATA – La Gare – 09420 RIMONT – Tél. 05.61.96.36.60 – Fax 05.61.66.99.58

email: association.prommata@prommata.org

I would be happy to translate a message if you p.m. it to me, then you can send it on.

[Robert MoonShadow]

Erik ~ Thank you for the Prommata link! I noticed that the link didn’t work, and saw that the name was spelled differently in the email address & tried that: sure enough, it worked! {I’m about the sharpest cookie in the crayon box, you betcha!!}
Anyways, I got so into the photos, that when I came up for air, it was past midnight!!
So, am I seeing what I think I see?!? Whether I am or it just gave me an idea, I think I’m looking at (for lack of better terminology) a ‘universal’ tool bar that has several different tools… the frame/handles are a seperate (stand alone) unit; you pull up & change out the tool –> plow blade, cultivator, hiller,etc. Like putting different implements onto a tiller or my weedeater’s powerhead –> pole pruner, mini-tiller, hedge trimmer, etc. If so, is it made commercially? I’m talking about for walk-behind implements. Or do these people at that site sell plans for it? Or anyone else? ‘Cuz I think that there’s a market for something like this… I know I’d buy one (if I can afford it!). Then I could just buy the various implements as I have the need and money for it. It’d save a lot on shipping weight, too. If it’s not already available, then perhaps I just gave someone a business idea. I’m new to all this, but I thought that I had heard that the idea’s used for toolbars that are ridden (I think in an article by Eric & Anne Nordell) or pulled by a forecart, but haven’t heard it applied to a walk-behind system. I’ve got 1 donkey & I’ve seen mention in this forum about others with just 1 horse/mule/etc. –> this would be so sweet. [And I’ll feel so dumb, if it’s already for sale here in the States!] Anyways, anyone w/ info on this, PLEASE let me know?

[Robin]

I belong to the Hudson Valley Draft Horse Association based in Ultser County, NY. We have run into the same questions, etc. so the club has decided to start giving basic lessons. The only requirement is folks be club members, for insurance purposes. The members decided a group of 20 students was all they could handle at one time. Right now we have a wait-list. The instructors are club members, who have been using draft animals for years.
The interest is there, but folks (general public) are lost as to where to start, how to get started, etc. Great emphasis will be on safety!
I was in the same boat with my “steers” until I met Howie, Ray Ludwig, etc.
I am still learning everyday. Now, at least, I can pull logs for firewood, use my ox cart, etc. with confidence. I don’t have a lot of land to work, but I am outdoors everyday, even if it’s just mucking or brushing them in bad weather.
I attended the Pa. Farm Show yesterday. I met a gal from Pa. who had her ox on display. Lots of interest from the public, same with the mustang horses, pull horses, etc.
Carl & Lisa keep up the good work.

[Robin]

I belong to the Hudson Valley Draft Horse Association based in Ultser County, NY. We have run into the same questions, etc. so the club has decided to start giving basic lessons. The only requirement is folks be club members, for insurance purposes. The members decided a group of 20 students was all they could handle at one time. Right now we have a wait-list. The instructors are club members, who have been using draft animals for years.
The interest is there, but folks (general public) are lost as to where to start, how to get started, etc. Great emphasis will be on safety!
I was in the same boat with my “steers” until I met Howie, Ray Ludwig, etc.
I am still learning everyday. Now, at least, I can pull logs for firewood, use my ox cart, etc. with confidence. I don’t have a lot of land to work, but I am outdoors everyday, even if it’s just mucking or brushing them in bad weather.
I attended the Pa. Farm Show yesterday. I met a gal from Pa. who had her ox on display. Lots of interest from the public, same with the mustang horses, pull horses, etc.
Carl & Lisa keep up the good work.

[Carl Russell]

I just wanted to point out that this thread has had 2340 views. That’s awesome.

Carl

[Gulo]

The biggest stumbling block, i think, is laziness. There’s a reason why pre-industrial farmers were mostly lean and hard – working with animals takes way more physical effort, even before you reach the garden, and after, too. Most people would rather turn a key and ride.

How you address this issue is beyond me! Maybe if you can somehow motivate them just enough to fully experience the wonder of working with animals, just once, they’ll realize it’s more than worth the extra effort. But remember, there were plenty of farmers, so they tell me, who couldn’t wait to scrap their horses for a tractor.

[Anonymous]

@becorson 2655 wrote:

hopefully there are niches for many animal power advocates out there….
i am working on a single horse-powered wheelbarrow at the moment (basically a mini-dump cart).
how about a single-horse scraper for clearing manure out of barnyards and snow out of driveways…..

in response to becorson
my scraper is about ten feet of railroad iron, i’m guessing weighs 500lbs? cuts through manure, does the driveway, and is great for my friends round pen. setting it at an angle, it really does a good job at cutting the burm down. bob h.

[henkdemink]

@Robert MoonShadow 4754 wrote:

Erik ~ Thank you for the Prommata link! I noticed that the link didn’t work, and saw that the name was spelled differently in the email address & tried that: sure enough, it worked! {I’m about the sharpest cookie in the crayon box, you betcha!!}
Anyways, I got so into the photos, that when I came up for air, it was past midnight!!
So, am I seeing what I think I see?!? Whether I am or it just gave me an idea, I think I’m looking at (for lack of better terminology) a ‘universal’ tool bar that has several different tools… the frame/handles are a seperate (stand alone) unit; you pull up & change out the tool –> plow blade, cultivator, hiller,etc. Like putting different implements onto a tiller or my weedeater’s powerhead –> pole pruner, mini-tiller, hedge trimmer, etc. If so, is it made commercially? I’m talking about for walk-behind implements. Or do these people at that site sell plans for it? Or anyone else? ‘Cuz I think that there’s a market for something like this… I know I’d buy one (if I can afford it!). Then I could just buy the various implements as I have the need and money for it. It’d save a lot on shipping weight, too. If it’s not already available, then perhaps I just gave someone a business idea. I’m new to all this, but I thought that I had heard that the idea’s used for toolbars that are ridden (I think in an article by Eric & Anne Nordell) or pulled by a forecart, but haven’t heard it applied to a walk-behind system. I’ve got 1 donkey & I’ve seen mention in this forum about others with just 1 horse/mule/etc. –> this would be so sweet. [And I’ll feel so dumb, if it’s already for sale here in the States!] Anyways, anyone w/ info on this, PLEASE let me know?

Prommata is a collection of civilans and farmers who want to promote the use of animals in agriculture arouns the world.

To buy the implements you have to be a member.
Within prommata there is a discution going on to sell the plans of the impliments, updated to the latest innovations.

The orininal implements are the idea of Jean Nolle. He wrote the book in French “Machines Modernes a traction Animale” with detail plans of the implements. ISBN 2-85802-606-5

Let me know if you want more information

Henk

[Robert MoonShadow]

Henk ~ That book sure sounds interesting… but has it a translated version? I can work with metric measurements, but without English words to go along with it… {I’m just not mechanically adept at all}

[Gulo]

It is always easier to resort to a tractor, if you have one on hand. If that’s what you normally resort to, that’s what you’re better with. What i’ve learned about farmers around here with drafts is that they see the horses as something you fool around with when you have time, take to parades, whatever. It’s an attitude thing, to an extent – they are no longer seen as a serious working tool. Furthermore, it takes more energy to work them, and many farmers today are not in very good physical condition.

We don’t own a tractor and don’t intend to. When we have a job to do, the horses are therefore what we use. Again, my main point being that for many people on any given day, if the tractor is there, they are as likely to use it as go to the lengths of harnessing the horses.

We had teams cutting 90 acres of hay this past year at the neighbor’s, who farm with both machines and horses. My neighbor figured the economics, all told, factoring the time, worked out similar or slightly in favor of using the horses to get the job done.

[Crabapple Farm]

@Robert MoonShadow 4754 wrote:

So, am I seeing what I think I see?!? Whether I am or it just gave me an idea, I think I’m looking at (for lack of better terminology) a ‘universal’ tool bar that has several different tools… the frame/handles are a seperate (stand alone) unit; you pull up & change out the tool –> plow blade, cultivator, hiller,etc. Like putting different implements onto a tiller or my weedeater’s powerhead –> pole pruner, mini-tiller, hedge trimmer, etc. If so, is it made commercially? I’m talking about for walk-behind implements. Or do these people at that site sell plans for it? Or anyone else? ‘Cuz I think that there’s a market for something like this… I know I’d buy one (if I can afford it!). Then I could just buy the various implements as I have the need and money for it. It’d save a lot on shipping weight, too. If it’s not already available, then perhaps I just gave someone a business idea. I’m new to all this, but I thought that I had heard that the idea’s used for toolbars that are ridden (I think in an article by Eric & Anne Nordell) or pulled by a forecart, but haven’t heard it applied to a walk-behind system. I’ve got 1 donkey & I’ve seen mention in this forum about others with just 1 horse/mule/etc. –> this would be so sweet. [And I’ll feel so dumb, if it’s already for sale here in the States!] Anyways, anyone w/ info on this, PLEASE let me know?

Robert, I also really like the look of the walking tool bar Promatta shows on their site. I used something similar many years back, and liked it. As a walking plow, it wasn’t as good as a purpose built one, but the chisel plow attatchment was handy. I think that in general purpose built tools will work a little better than a toolbar like that, but there is more expense (and storage space) involved, so for tools with less frequent use, being able to change them out on a toolbar makes sense.
I would love to see I&J or some one like them make such a thing, but until then i’m planning to make one myself before spring.
I’m going to make a diamond bar style, because I have a bunch of tools designed for mounting on a 3ph tractor 2″ diamond tool bar – cultivator shanks, chisel plow shanks, and a pair of Planet Jr. seeders. And I know I can easily get hilling disks and other cultivating tools to mount on a diamond bar too.
I’m going to make it mainly out of wood, with a wood-core angle iron diamond bar but a wooden beam. Light work shouldn’t require heavy construction. If I get it made and it works I’ll post a picture.
I think the toolbar is the easy part – wood or angle iron, the plow handles, guage wheels, and hitch point (which ought to be adjustable) are the tricky bits, but pretty basic really. The trick is figuring out a set of tools some one is already making with a universal attatchment system, and use that. I’m going with the 2″ diamond bar, you could also go with a flat bar mount (for danish s-tines, etc.).
-Tevis

[Robert MoonShadow]

Tevis: Sweet. Keep me posted, will you, please? Even if it doesn’t work out… that, too, can be learned from.

[goodcompanion]

What is a diamond bar? Hollow steel with a diamond-shaped profile?

[Author]

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