What is it going to take to revive the NAHMLA?

[Jim Ostergard]

I can think of a number of folks who are not participating in this discussion around Maine. This supports a hard copy and also perhaps a personal contact to get them to join a loggers association. So I guess there is a bigger group out that we can perhaps get to support this. A simple flyer with an application panel would do the job and I think we are getting some of the ideas of what we are about and what we could deliver to membership here. One great thing about this forum is we can exchange these ideas pretty rapidly.
Since its raining yet again (Carl, I don’t think I’ve gotten more than 5 or 6 days in the last month or better) I’m going to try to distill some of the idea (and from who wrote them) into a separate document. Maybe just easier to print it all out for reference.
I think the discussion about value added is fundamental to where we might want to go. I can to this as a traditional logger. Skidder, forwarder and all that. Mostly a part Swede saw man. Being given a horse when the skidder blew up changed my life. I’ve kicked around a whole lot (thats a lot of other stories) in my life, always cut a little wood during slack times and the horse action was the first time I ever wished I was fifteen years younger! All this to say that when I finally hooked up with Carl, Jason and all the other loggers (as well as the Donn Hewes and the horse guys and gals of this site really gave me the courage to believe it what I was doing.
Getting local and state outfits to recognizes us and solicit our participation is an idea we can pursue locally as well as nationally. Just saw a local article on all the money that went locally from Project Canopy in Maine last night and will get in touch with them to see how we might fit in. The how to of all this would make great newsletter reading. The ability to pass article information easily would I think actually make enough articles for several broadsheets at this point.
My sister works at some really big printing outfit in Colorado and does all sorts of national stuff. I’ll get on to her about some of the logistics of how we might put this out. Maybe she has some thoughts that would be helpful and save us a lot of time trying to figure it out.
One thing I believe in is the “voice of the newsletter,” and one doesn’t need to be a “writer” to add an article and we already have evidence here of varied voices. Right on.
Good idea about hook ups at various places like the SFJ Auction. We now have a number of other places where regional stuff could happen: DAPDays, the new meeting in Tennessee, Common Ground Low Impact Forestry among others. This would save on the travel which is way too costly for a lot of us.
Carl is correct, we are getting a lot on the table. Maybe someone could start putting some of the main ideas in a document so we could fine tune them on this forum for now.
I’d better shut up for now as this is getting way too wordy. Again, my thanks to all the energy folks are already putting in to this. It helps keep the courage up.

[john plowden]

There is a lot here to digest – I’m headed off to work down in Mass. for the week at Drumlin Farm – an Audubon Society sanctuary – to harvest red pine to be sawn on site for siding on a building project they have – So I will be out if the loop but thinking more about how I would be able to contribute to this idea –
John

[Scott G]

I agree, we have more than enough to start with. I will be out of touch for a while as well, heading into the old home backcountry for a couple of quality days with the fly rod. Will be at a computer briefly Sat p.m. and then mostly out of touch again while we run the basecamp for our daughters at the fair; horses, market steer, etc. crammed into a small amount of time. It’s an annual frenzy but an enjoyable one…

Carl, is the offer still there for a “spot” on DAP where the key players can act as a committee to come up with a focused direction & mission and define some clear-cut objectives? Over the next few days it would be great if folks that are seriously committed could step forward and announce their availability for the formative committee.

It is obvious that folks are interested in having a cohesive networking opportunity for draft powered forestry on an international scale. The only question is what form will it take. My vote is still to start out with a newsletter, both hard copy and e-copy, see what the response is, and then make a go/no go decision on forming a structured organization based on the response or lack thereof of the newsletter subscribers.

Thank you very much for everyone weighing in on this & contributing. It is amazing what can happen when a group of individuals get together with a common goal…

Take care,
Scott

[Gabe Ayers]

I will gladly seriously be on the committee and feel comfortable representing the 50+ full time animal powered forestry people that we call the Healing Harvest Forestry Coalition – the founding group of Healing Harvest Forest Foundation.

This is an extremely worthy project. Even if the worst possible environmental scenarios come true…this is the best thing to do..

“restorative forestry with animal powered extraction”

enjoy the mysterious waters, the wonder of your children and animals and we will all meet here again soon. Out here in the cyber woods.

[lancek]

I think this is a wonderfull idea! Count me in I would be more than glade to share some of my expereances [ you will have to excuse my spelling I am Deslexex] But I can do in word and use spell check anyways the Idea of useing differant logers to wright about they differant working situations would be an awsome way to share the burdun of the news letter. I also feel shareing defferant ways of enhanceing our products would be of help to all of us!Scotts approch and explanation of how he charges his costomers and justfis it to them as a matinance procedure verses a paying harvest is somthing that I am going to use in the future! We need more of that information to help all of us be more proffitable.

[Carl Russell]

I am in, seriously.

I will make a forum to house this discussion. I will include the names of those who have been contributing, and I can set the program to e-mail everybody with each new post. This can be really helpful when trying to include folks who may not check the progress as frequently as others.

Just to reiterate something I alluded to before, we have been working on developing a Draft Animal Power Network that would have some similar functions, but would not be limited to logging/forestry. We are in the beginning stages, and have made a plan to discuss it in detail at NEAPFD.

It seems as though this work can all be done at the same time. There may be a lot of mutual benefit, and it just seems like the time to form a broad based coalition of draft animal associations, to unify and move forward into the future.

Carl

[Rick Alger]

The property maintenance concept has not worked for me in my area in spite of considerable efforts on my part, so I’m out of step with many of you. But if there is room for an old school logger in the revived logger’s association, I will participate.

[Carl Russell]

To follow up on Jason’s mention of the major publications, it occurs to me that we could send out an introductory news letter to be printed as an article in SFJ, DHJ, RH, and others like Draft Horse Connection. I know these editor would support our effort, and it will help in the start up phase of publishing and distribution.

Rick, I understand where you are coming from. I happen to have always combined my forestry management with the harvesting, so I can direct the emphasis of my harvesting projects, but i know that that is not the case for many others. I think there needs to be a distinction between marketing horse logging as a landscape service, and actually making a living “logging” with horses. I think that many people assume that if we charge for horse-logging it means that we are not actually performing a commercial logging enterprise.

I for one, have thought for years that the standard way of pricing stumpage as if the value of timber harvest lies there, is contributing to a significant detriment to our forests. If landowners can learn to see stumpage as an asset that can be managed to increase value per acre, then they will see timber harvest as an investment, and although there will often be a surplus income from every harvest, the cost of the operation is key in delivering the primary product of an improved residual stand. This, in my mind, is just good forestry, horses or not. But what if horse loggers just started promoting this as a standard of operation? I think we would leave the skidder jobs on the rusting hulk pile where they belong.

These are some of the distinctions that I think this kind of association could really help to clarify.

This is not necessarily a discussion for this thread, but in some ways it fits in because it is an example of the type of cultural shift in perspective that we can assist through organizing, networking, and sharing.

This is very exciting for me. I have spent many hours alone in the woods with animals thinking about these issues in the larger context of culture, but as most of you have too I’m sure, have just picked up the saw and cut down another tree, resigned to do what I could on a small scale. I really hope we can make a go of it. I will put all I can behind this effort. I think we can all bring a lot to the table, and we can go a long way without huge financial expense(although anybody with money is welcome to pitch in too;):D).

Carl

[Gabe Ayers]

Seems we are definitely getting to the point where this discussion needs it’s own page. There are so many different ways of doing this work that may be regionally appropriate and can be fleshed out in this forum and eventually a hard copy version.

We have been to the point of not paying stumpage for a long time based on the sliding scale pay system and the sale of the services as being truly “restorative”, and indeed an investment by the landowner. One landowner called it the “cheapest stock upgrade program he had ever seen” when compared to the investment in a stock market portfolio upgrade. It was interesting to hear a landowner make their own comparison from this financial perspective as a compliment to the values he held for his forests.

More on all this later…..

Welcome to Wes and Greg Lange in the NW. Glad you all are here with us.

[Jim Ostergard]

I’m certainly in for what its worth. Certainly can share when needed the horse logging perspective from the pretty well cut over mid-coast of Maine. I’ve done both stumpage, day rate and hourly work. Also just cut for the wood. Leaves me in dire financial straits most of the time but that is ok.
I will certainly share energy on the hard copy end and with many newsletters, one-time print shop owner hope I can ease some of that burden for the group.
It might be nice once we get a set of shared principles together I was thinking of making a three panel 8X11 simple brochure and one or two of the panels describe my Peregrinator Services work. Use it as a hand-out to landowners.
Maybe a regional approach would also ease the burden of an association. A co-ordinator for each region and maybe this group could spearhead other activities.
later..Jim

[Scott G]

In & out real quick folks, and then off to the fair to help the wife before she kills the children…..

I just wanted to clarify the service approach. It may not be just a “maintenance” type of contract. Locally we are often referred to as forestry contractors. There may be enough stumpage to pay for the work and turn a profit but more often not in our timber types where the value is put on the residual. Any marketable material is marketed. The idea is that the logger does not starve while the landowner enjoys a bang up TSI job and improved residual inventory. I have heard of similiar models in Europe where all of the forestry work is charged as a service on a per unit basis. The landowner maintains possesion of the timber (including the government) and contracts out the harvesting, road construction, TSI, trucking, etc.. That puts the burden of P&L for the commodity on the owner. Doesn’t it make sense that the person that owns the commodity should assume most of the risk for their product? Think real hard and see if you can come up with any other enterprise with such a bassackward business model as conventional logging. We buy a marginal raw product on the stump so that we can assume the risk? Food for thought. Now I need to go move horses…..

Watch your top knot…..
Scott

[Joshua Kingsley]

Should this just include those who are already doing this or should it include young people who wish to follow in your hoof prints so to speak?
I would like some ideas from those who are out there doing this work on the best methods they have seen when trying to start up. I had seven drafts till I got hurt a year ago and now would like to be able to re-enter into the draft world and would be interested in the budding newsletter, or group. Would people be willing to contribute on ways they got started? Or ideas for ways to go about securing some first jobs? This sounds like a great way to network and I listen to all the advice from those who have and are willing to give it freely. Thank you for your passion and drive, log safe
Josh

[Gabe Ayers]

Carl,

I want to invite Ronnie Tucker to this page too, I don’t think he uses a handle, he calls himself Tn. Logger. He is the real deal from my exchanges with him.
Works four up mules with a jerk line….

Scott what is P&L? I know I will feel dumb when you tell me but it is getting late again so I don’t get it or am not familiar with the acronym.

[Ronnie Tucker]

i have been following along with great interest i will help out in whatever ways i can ronnie tucker tn logger

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