Willows as water pumps?

[goodcompanion]

Anyone know any leads for pursuing this idea:

I have heavy soil pastures/hayfields that have wet spots. There used to be a system of ditches and I would like to rehab it. but there may be limits to ditching since my neighbor downstream would have to ditch too or we won’t be able to drop the water table enough.

Instead I am thinking about planting fenced-off weeping willow groves, maybe in a ring around the wettest spots. I understand that those things are water thieves. Why not use that to advantage? Can they be propogated from shoots?

Then I could direct some ditches to drain into those spots so that the willows can pump the water into the sky, rather than trying to get the water off the property entirely.

Of course it would only work when the willows are in leaf, but that’s all I really care about anyway.

Open to input.

[Lane Linnenkohl]

Yes, you can start willows fom cuttings. They do pump a lot of water. It would be really interesting to find out what you learn. It’ll be several years before the trees are big enough to pump a significant amount of water, but if you have the time…

Lane Linnenkohl

[goodcompanion]

@drybranchfarm 4773 wrote:

Yes, you can start willows fom cuttings. They do pump a lot of water. It would be really interesting to find out what you learn. It’ll be several years before the trees are big enough to pump a significant amount of water, but if you have the time…

Lane Linnenkohl

I’m reading a book where agriculture is described as a question asked of nature. Maybe you don’t get an answer for 10 years. I can wait, I guess.

[416Jonny]

Hey Erik, next time I’m home I’d like to discuss the drainage issue with you if I can get the go ahead to start doing stuff over at the Meigs place. It might do us some good to coordinate a plan of attack on that property.

As far as the Meigs place goes, there are a few grandfathered pond sights that could be dug up, and there’s always the vernal (?) pool that Uncle Steve was talking about. A shallow, roughly a foot deep, pond that would be pretty long and a few feet wide. Something that could help take some of the surface water away but not so deep as to take away the water during the summer. Just some thoughts?

I do like the willow idea. Future shade areas would be nice too.

Jonny B.

[brandon]

check out P.A. Yeomans “Water for Every Farm”

[Patrick]

Can they be propogated from shoots?

Just take some cuttings and stick them in the ground. Especially in a damp area, they’ll root.

[lowbrowscruffy]

When my neighbour moved in, in the seventies, he planted weeping willow all around his pond. Well, now it is always low….always 6 feet down from the level it had been for 50 years. On dry years it is just mud. The willows are quite mature now and it is my belief they are consuming a lot of his water. He asked me my thoughts on his mud hole and I told him to thin out all but a few willow on the south side for shade. I’m always a bit nervous well someone follows my advise but we will see what happens. Those trees do shed a lot of branches and spread if not contained. Over the years his pond got pretty overgrown,some willows are worse than other. I personally would never plant weeping one. Just my thoughts………

[near horse]

A comment about ponds – unless there is a regular and reliable inflow of water, they are ephemeral not a climax situation. Soil and detritus fill in and eventually you end up with a meadow that then continues to progress towards the climax community for that particular area (hardwood forest or whatever) unless some “disturbance” – natural or man-made sets succesion back to an earlier stage.

We have a similar situation (I think) in which our shallow clay soils have a “perched water table” w/ water being trapped in the upper 1-2′ of soil. The ground is saturated during the spring/early summer and, in certain areas drowns out most vegetation. So get rid of that water, right? Well, some of the old-timers like the perched water table (which eventually drains away each year) because it extends the period of water available to plants (and gardens) when we are in our low rainfall summers.

My point is – what are you trying to manage for in your particular situation? As usual, hard to have your cake and eat it too.

[goodcompanion]

What I am trying to manage for is drainage of water from areas of my “perched water table” in order to have those lands passable to humans, stock and horsedrawn vehicles earlier in the year (currently not reliably dry until about July). They are not quite cattail wet, but almost.

Given the fact that these problem areas are in little bowls, ditching them out would involve a lot of work. Plus, the whole area is very flat so it’s hard to see where to ditch to. So I’m still thinking willows. The loss of some grass to “willow groves” wouldn’t matter too much.

[Vicki]

My land in northern Ohio is like Erik’s. A clay hardpan in rather level bottom land creates vernal pools and perched water table, so moving on the land in spring causes compaction, turf destriction, mud, and ruts.

You should consider native willows as well as or in place of weeping willows. They will root easily from cuttings. Native willows are necessary for several butterfly species and will create habitat for other birds and critters too. Maybe ask your regional naturalists a through state conservation agencies, and soil and water conservation agency.

[OldKat]

@Bret4207 6705 wrote:

Gene Lodgson spoke of a perennial wet spot that was fixed by sinking a drain pipe below the hard pan to allow the water to drain. Might be an idea if you don’t have rock under you like I do.

Willows will use a lot of water, just don’t et them near your septic lines as the roots play havoc with them.

I have a similar situation in one of my fields. a low spot that always collects water. You can see the old open ditches that were plowed through. When I get my D4 finished I intend to reopen them. Not the answer for everyone I know, but a little judicious grading, by animal or mechanical power, sure can make a difference.

A friend of mine bought about a 30 acre place just down the road from my place. He was at the bottom of a small grade and probably half of the place was constantly standing water. He shot an elevation on it and saw that he had enough slope to move water, so he dug a series of ditches in a herringbone pattern with the main ditch running out to the bar ditch on the highway.

At least that was the plan. Shortly before he started ditching, the 5 acre piece of property across the fence sold to a non-profit group that was putting in a Boys & Girls Club facility. Their property was low, too, so he sold them enough fill dirt to allow him to build about a 1 acre pond. They had the pond excavated and used the soil to build their property up. He got a pond and the ditch was routed to it to feed the pond.

Worked like a charm; no drainage problems anymore, he has a nice pond & the Boys and Girls Club land was built up enough that it no longer floods. Everyone came out winners in this deal.

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