Would a draft horsebe easyer to train

[Eli]

A friend of mine told me to get a team of draft horses. She bought a team of Clydesdales and sold her rideing horses and never looked back. She said draft horses are much easyer to work with and I would probably get hurt working with my horses. I have two problems 1 my daughter would never let me sell our American Bashcur Curlies both are registered to her. 2 I have so many hours in scarlet I hate to stop now. She also said I would have hooked a draft horse months ago and been training in the cart already. I guess I’m looking for opinions? Thanks Eli.

[Andy Carson]

It is not an easy task to train a horse to drive for the first time. This goes for a light horse and a draft horse. I do think that drafts tend to be less reactive, which is helpful, but there is alot of variation within all breeds. If someone gives up on training an animal because they are having troubles, they will likely end up giving up on animal after animal without learning how to address problems and, more importantly, that they CAN address problems. It could be that your particular horses are not suited to what you want to do, but I don’t think this is because of breed. If you think that your horses aren’t making progress, or you feel unsafe, I would recommend hiring or befriending someone experianced and open minded who might be able to help. This is a lot faster, cheaper, etc compared to selling your pair and buying a good draft or pair. Perhaps this is what you were doing with this friend. I am sorry to be blunt, but I would say that if your friend says your horses can’t drive or work because they are light horses, than they are simply not going to be a qualified mentor. My opinion: keep your horses and find a different friend to help.

[Eli]

Thank you for the reply. I agree I don’t think it is the breed of horse. My curlies are 15+ hands and 1300+ lbs and will do any thing i plan to do. My friend is not at all involved in my training she was just giving me an opinion. I am looking for a second opinion I don’t want to start over. I think my horse is doing well consideringI I don’t have a lot of experience or time. In less than a year she is broke to ride, still green but over 100 hrs in the saddle. Now she is green broke to drive been hitched to a cart once and dragged every thing I can get a chain around. I rushed into the cart a bit so I backed up and am doing more ground work. I’m looking for a trainer/mentor to teach me to drive but untill I find one I will keep working with my horse on my own. And blunt is the only way to be. My Father always told me don’t ask the question unless you can handle the answer. Thanks Again Eli

[Andy Carson]

Did something bad happen when you got her in the cart? Anything we can help with?

[Eli]

No not really she would run then stop then run then stop. When we did new things before she accepted them and settled down in a few min. With the cart she never calmed down after a half hour she was still nervous so I thought I should regroup. I think it was not being able to turn in the shafts so I have been working on side passing. She side passes off the line on her leg but it cant touch her leg in the shafts. Also I have skis on the cart so she can’t back up and this is also new to her. I thought about putting the tires back on but then it snowed 6+ inches so I didn’t. Do you think she would be better off with wheels on the driveway it is snow packed and somewhat slippery? I can’t wait to get her pulling the cart it’s hard to ground drive her for more then a half an hour in the snow. One more question when she stops should I get after her with the buggy whip I haven’t but se others use them? Thank you and any pointers are welcome. Eli

[Andy Carson]

My feeling is that I would first make sure the harness, breeching, shafts, etc fit well and are adjusted properly when your horse is in the cart. If you can’t fine anyone to evaluate this, post some pics and we might be able to see something. If the setup is not adjusted properly, you might be asking for things that are difficult. If everything looks good, I would ground drive her with the cart hitched up. Act like you are pulling anything else, and let her get used to the shafts. Tight turns take some practice and its OK to go straight and make gentle turns until your horse gets used to the shafts. Tight turns are kinda a sidepass and kinda a pivot on the haunches, but done at the same time. Hard to duplicate in a saddle completely. I know it might not seem like it, but having a horse be disciplined and well behaved pulling a light two wheeled cart or sled at a walk is one of the hardest tasks I have done. Real work pulling “horse sized” loads tires a horse out, whcih goes a long way towards making them compliant and relaxed. If you are making strong progress with your light cart/sled, you are doing a good job.

[paintpony]

Eli,

I don’t know what training method you are using, but it sounds to me that you have not desentized her to things touching her. I would suggest before you put her back in shafts that you look into natural horsemanship methods. I personally like Clinton Anderson because he is very clear in communicating what the horse should be doing and what you should be doing.

Also one of the ways I descintized my horses to the noise of the single tree etc. was to tie a plastic bag to a lunge whip with tin cans inside and using the natural horsemanship method of approach and retreat got them used to that and then asked them to walk around me while I had the lash of the whip over their back and dragging the cans around their back legs. But, please do the basics before attempting to use the tin cans. That way your horse knows what is expected of her.

[Donn Hewes]

Hi Eli, Your questions are tricky as there are many variables and unknowns. In my limited experience, drafts are different than saddle horses and generally easier to put to work, but I also agree with what Andy said that there are more variations with in each breed than there are between. So really I think it comes down to two things. How do YOU assess the temperament of your own horses; and what temperament would you like in a driving animal. To me there is nothing more important than the temperament of the animals that I am working with. Too flighty or uptight, there out of here. Mean or sour, or lazy, I don’t want them. There is a wide degree of conformation and sizes I can make work, but I want the best temperaments I can find.

“One more question when she stops should I get after her with the buggy whip I haven’t but see others use them? Thank you and any pointers are welcome”

I think this quote speaks to what I am saying. If I had just hooked a single horse to shafts and skis I would be more worried about the moment when she runs than when she stops. She runs because she is frightened or nervous. I certainly would not be letting her run unless she was calm and relaxed and ready for this next step. She stops because you asked her to? or because she is nervous and unsure what is expected. In either case, say “whoa” take it as a good thing. When she is calm and relaxed (or as calm and relaxed as she will be given the current situation) ask her to go again. At a walk! You won’t need a buggy whip. A buggy whip is neither good or bad and is just another tool that we can use; however because it is a tool that extends our ability to apply pressure it also demands more skill and precision in order to send the desired message. In the case of an animal that we want to relax we need to utilize as little pressure as we can for each thing we ask for. Patience is the name of the game.

[Anonymous]

I have been trying to figure out why I would ever use a buggy whip since I started driving as a kid, and I cant think of a good reason to use one, some people make them work well but the slightest bit of misuse could really get someone hurt.

Jared

[Eli]

Thank you all for your replies. When we broke scarlet we used parelli with a experanced trainer in not sure what level but she has been to his ranch. I bought the Nate Bowers DVD and watched it many times. Scarlet is almost bomb proof she has dragged all kinds of stuff plastic sled, tires, chains pipes,15 gallon drums, spike drag the only thing that ever bothered her was a beef steer buy my neighbors. She will cross a tarp forward and backward you can put it all over her plastic bag on a stick large ball. When I ride her I throw stones at the tin walls and she dosent care. We have ridden the Kawasaki mule and four wheeler in her pasture, she will go back and forth on a wood bridge. She has been ponied behind the cart for miles. I have a 15 year old daughter that worked with her for hours with a large ball she even dragged PVC shafts screwed to a board all over the farm. She is pretty desensitized. She stops when I say woa and runs when I tell her to walk on she just wasn’t comfortable in the cart so I backed up a step and started over. I don’t think I’m having terrible trouble, considering my level of experance. I will try to get some pictures in the cart and I don’t use the wip either but I know guys that get after their horses if they slow down or don’t go. Thank you and keep the advice coming I have no problem reviewing any aspect of my training. Eli

[Baystatetom]

I bought my daughter a 13 hand POA a little over a year ago. He was a great horse when we got him and all 3 of my young kids could ride him, however he quickly figured out that he knew more then we did about riding. He bucked my girls off a few times and then went down hill from there. I have gotten a lot better at staying in the saddle but its not a fun ride. I am farm boy not a cowboy. I was thinking about trying to break him to drive so I could trot him around on the road for a while and wear him before anybody tried to ride him. He is a real sweetheart of a pony and acted well when I got him so I know he can be better. But after reading this thread I am thinking breaking him to drive is probably beyond my skill level. I had hoped that after breaking a half dozen teams of oxen that a horse would be easy, but it really is a totally different language.
~Tom

[paintpony]

Well, it sounds like she’s had a great start then. How was she in the pvc shafts? Was she listening to the walk on cue at that point? If she was okay with that, then it’s not the shafts.

If you have a very low traffic dirt road, or even better a large field with no obstacles that you can drive a truck in, this is what I would do. I saw this on youtube being done by a professional driving trainer in the UK. I used this method on my pony that had some abuse/trust issues. I did this I think 4 times before driving him without aid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw3vCvRmhTQ

Hook the horse up to the cart behind a truck (I would do some ground work first, to get horse’s mind) with a person holding lead rope attached to halter (use a rope halter) in bed of truck so horse can’t get her nose past the truck and SLOWLY drive the truck around while you are in the cart driving the horse. The truck will slow the horse down so that she can’t run and you are still in control. If she should try and start running, let the truck slow her down and the person in the bed of the truck must keep her head as close to the middle of the truck as possible. Drive around and around until she calms down with plenty of Whoas and Walk Ons. Don’t stop until she is walking calmly and listening to you.

Also are you using a bucking strap on your cart? I would highly reccomend using one until you have confidence that she isn’t going to do any bucking.

[Eli]

I ground drove scarlet for about a half hour after work then I hooked her to the cart she was much more cooperative but reared a couple of times. I just got out of the cart and petted her and talked to her until she calmed down and started over. Then I drove her from the ground and talked to her to keep her calm this went on about a half hour. She stood good to unhook I drove her into the barn told her what a good girl she was un harnessed her brushed her a little and put her away. She did well with the PVC shafts never bothered her she is pretty hard to shake. I didnt use a bucking strap mostly because I didn’t know for sure how, does it just go over the horses back and tie to the shafts? I have a long lane 1/2 mile or so that is not plowed so it works good for the horses, and a 20 acre hay field next to the house for her to run wild in if she needs to.
Tom good luck with that poa my daughter has an Appaloosa that was supposed to be a poa but he got to tall. My daughter has been in the dirt a few times wile learning to ride. We got a better fitting sadle and more rideing lessons and a few years under her belt now she is doing great. Our neighbor has about 20 Poa’s and those little buggers got spunk, but I’m sure they can be taught to drive. I will help if I can but I’m pretty green my self. I broke my horse to ride the only thing I know is if you think she is going to buck give her something to do turn in a circle or figure eight change gates. Its hard but when they buck don’t stop keep them busy. A good natural horsemanship trainer is worth a million I know my daughter would have given up if it wasn’t for Shirly our trainer. Now she is breaking horses for friends and neighbors and she is only 15.

[paintpony]

Bucking straps go over the top of the rump. Attached on both sides of the shaft so that it won’t slide back. I usually loop it where the hold backs attach. It should be adjusted loose enough that it will only come into play should she decide to buck/kick. The middle of the strap goes in the ring on the top of the britchen on top of the rump.

Why is she rearing? What kind of bit are you using? Is it properly adjusted? Keep her moving forward.

[Eli]

I use a snaffle bit almost identical to the one I ride her in, It just touches the corners of he mouth. I don’t think it’s the bit although I did have problems with her fighting the bit when I switched from the bosal but thar was head shaking never rearing. After I stop her with woa and light pressure have her stand for a few seconds I gave the walk on comand and she didn’t go so I mads a kiss noise and she reared up and walked off. This time she didn’t go as fast as the first time. She is the kind of horse that stops thinks then reacts if that makes any sence. She is a viary head strong horse we had some battles but once she settles in she is awesome. Do you think I am hooking her to soon my daughter thinks I should back off a little, I don’t want to stop now I think we are making progress. I also don’t want to get anyone hurt. I thought of lunging her on a long line to take the edge off but don’t want to get her all sweated up when it is cold because she stays on pasture with only a 3 sided building and it’s been below zero the last few nights. Thanks Eli

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