You are all ahead of the curve!

[Sally]

Hello. Looking to move north to Vermont. My partner Tim Bennett and I made the documentary What A Way To Go: Life at the End of Empire which documents why the future of Draft Animal Power is both bright and an absolute necessity, and sooner rather than later. When I read that using draft animals is not profitable I really want to support all of you who are persevering in this venture. Tim and I are more alert to the impending unravelling of the fossil-fuel based culture because of the research we’ve been involved in over the last four years. So I want to fully appreciate and support the efforts of all of you. You are ahead of the curve but the curve is catching up rapidly. Every bit of knowledge and expertise you gain will be of untold value in the near future. Thanks for pursuing this.

We met Carl and Lisa on a screening tour last summer and were amazed at the knowledge and passion that they displayed for their life with the land and animals.

My interest is not directly with personally using draft animal power at this time as I’m 55 and have devoted my life to raising kids, being a psychotherapist and building skills in human interaction and spirituality. I intend to bring that experience and learn from those who are deeply rooted in a place and passionate for land, animals, and plants and work together to support the growth of land-based community.

Best regards,
Sally

[Anonymous]

We’ve had people show up three years after we quit selling meats, very sincere supporters, and ask “What happened?” I don’t have the heart to tell them that we needed customers who showed up more than once every five years or so.
Maybe if someone wants to use this forum, to promote their film for example, she could donate a percentage to trully ensure her friends sustainability.

[goodcompanion]

@John 109 wrote:

Maybe if someone wants to use this forum, to promote their film for example, she could donate a percentage to trully ensure her friends sustainability.

Look, clearly from your other posts you have experience that could make you an asset to our discussions. But this attacking of people you don’t know from Adam isn’t going to go over well. Why not enter the discussion with the assumption that every participant has something to offer unless there’s overwhelming proof to the contrary?

Are you familiar with Sally’s film? If so you would know that it’s not a money making venture. And it’s not Sally’s fault that your customers left you hanging.

Sally, welcome to the forum and thank you for doing your important work.

[Anonymous]

What can I say? My wife hates me, my kids hate me, even my dog threw himself in front of a car this week. But then, he was a useless flea bag anyway.

[CRTreeDude]

Though John’s way of saying leaves something to be desired in my opinion, those who are idealistic about draft animals may want to take heed.

When someone says “You are ahead of the curve” I normally get worried. Being a little ahead can be good – too much can be painful. Sounds like John was too much.

As the old saying goes, “You know how you know who are the pioneers? – They are the ones with arrows in their backs!”

Early adopters bear the brunt of the learning curve. I just ordered almost 200 dollars worth of books (speaking of which – a recommened book section would be great) to help me on my way. One actually explains how to make a harness! Since there is no way for me to buy a harness down here, with step by step instructions, it will be easy since in our little town, there has to be at least 6 saddle makers (and anything else in leather)

Right now, using this technology may be marginal for many people – but if resources go the way it may well – the fundementals might change rapidly.

For me, draft horses makes sense – the horses are virtually free, the food is (and no haying required) and labor is cheap. I suspect I will save a lot of money. I find myself using horses to get between our farms as well as a mountain bike – not for lack of vehicles, but because the time difference just isn’t that much.

[Anonymous]

@goodcompanion 111 wrote:

Are you familiar with Sally’s film? If so you would know that it’s not a money making venture.

What a horrible thing to say!

[goodcompanion]

Allow me to clarify. “Not a money-making venture” as in, not a venture entered into primarily for purposes of making money, i.e., for profit or personal gain.

[Anonymous]

I knew that. My point was how we can all be taken out of context and these forums really suck unless you can be very open minded.

[Sally]

So I would love to donate money and if we ever make anything beyond just keeping us going I will be looking for places. Independent filmmakers rarely make a whole lot of money.

What I do already is buy my food locally. We are not eating a lot of meat but the meat we do eat we buy from a local farmer. We buy all of our eggs from local producers and choose local vegetables over imports. The local food movement is one that could help and I talk it up whenever I can. Higher prices are to be expected as is the consistently higher quality. But even if the quality was the same I am committed to putting my money into the pockets of local people.

What I will say is that if any producer on this forum is struggling financially and wants a copy of our movie that you can write to me personally and let me know and I’ll get you a copy at a price you can afford. How’s that? Because I think it is really important that people get the gravity of the situation we are collectively facing, especially the people who are on the ground trying to make a difference. I want people to realize that sustainable food is critical and food systems that are dependent on fossil fuels, while they are more financially feasible right now, they are not in the long term sustainable. The mainstream press is not covering the incredibly thin thread the whole economy is hanging on and with oil hovering at $100/barrel and the dollar tanking things could unravel rather quickly, like in months or years rather than decades.

And yeah, it hurts a little to be accused of things that aren’t true. But not much…
Best,
Sally

[Anonymous]

Hey Sally-
I love therapists. Two of my best friends are my therapists. Good for you for supporting your locals but if you’re going to deny that you were promoting your film… Well I have no use for a community based on half truths. Color me gone.

[Carl Russell]

Welcome Sally,
It is so good to see your here. I’m really happy that you can use this forum to promote your film, just as Eric can his bread, or we can the Animal-power Field Days, or John could his personal ventures. I’m sorry but contributions like John has been making really are not welcome here. It clearly states that in our rules section. Even while disagreeing we need to respond in some manner to continue the discussion. That is the point of the forum, Discussion. Comments that are disparaging are at their most basic, Off-Topic and need to be kept Off-Topic. Let’s all try to keep that in mind.
I would love for people to truly try to open up and share their experiences. If we greet them with confrontational responses that’s unfair.
Now which curve is it that we are ahead of??? We are all victims of place and time. We are also beneficiaries of the same. Each of us has different opportunities than the other and we each choose different ways to respond. I feel like I’m always working on something new, and I try to make my choices based on my own initiative, but reading how others are interpreting our group challenge and what they are doing about it is very stimulating to me.
There is a quivering mass of warm bodies out there, and we can all get smothered in it without knowing that there are others that we might succeed with. Let’s make the best of this site while we can. I love you guys. Carl

[goodcompanion]

Ahead of the curve can be a tricky place to be.

I can’t remember where I read about “being right too soon.” It might’ve been Lynn Miller? But the gist of the piece was exactly that. An example from history might have been someone who saw the writing on the wall with the launch of Robert Fulton’s Clermont, an early steam-powered boat, and devoted their fortune to building steamships in 1810 or whenever that was. Such a person would have been right, but right too soon. The peak of the age of sail was still to come, and steam wouldn’t become prevalent for another 40 years.

My personal hunch is that we won’t be waiting that long for major change, but I’m not taking my hopes for a draft-powered future to the bank while I’m waiting.

Even while it’s dicey out here (ahead of the curve, if you will) sometimes in some ways, I feel the work we are doing and the work our forebears and mentors have done will pay dividends in my lifetime. The trick is to lead the lives we wish to and enjoy leading in the world as it is while keeping in the back of our minds the potential value of our work down the road.

[Sally]

@Carl Russell 131 wrote:

I would love for people to truly try to open up and share their experiences. If we greet them with confrontational responses that’s unfair.
Now which curve is it that we are ahead of???…….. Let’s make the best of this site while we can. I love you guys. Carl

Thank you Carl. I was a little stumped about how to respond and finally decided to simply wait and let the group help. And you did!

So that’s one thing I’d like to contribute to a community, whether it is on line or in real time on a piece of land: my experience living in community, spending much of my adult life drawn to sit with people and feel and think and open to how we can show up and care for one another.

One of the things I’ve learned about well-functioning, committed groups is that when I don’t know what to do if I sit and stay open and vulnerable that generally someone else in the group will offer the next word that will help the process. And you did that here. Thank you.

From now on I will probably post on the Community section as that is where my interests and contributions are probably best made.

Anyway I appreciate the potential power of people sharing their experience. I look forward to the time when most of us can sit together, face to face. I have been saddened for years by how this medium of electronic communication is misused partly because it is so limited. People can write things in response to words on a screen and never have to see the impact those words have on a living, breathing being on the other end. But for now the benefits of connecting people seem to outweigh those liabilities so we’ll use what we have while we have it to prepare ourselves for the best and worst that will come.

I don’t know when we’ll get back up north but we’re looking forward to it.
Love to you and Lisa and family,
Sally

[earthwise]

Welcome Sally –

Great of you to stimulate such a storm of great conversation, and THANK YOU for promoting your wonderful film (http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com) that I think everybody should see.

I hope that this form provides opportunities for people to share not only who they are, but also what they have to offer and where people can learn more.

I hope that our inspiration for conversation can come MORE from positive comments and developments in conversation and NOT from negative attacks.

I too will continue with this thread in the Community section

much love,

Lisa McCrory

[Author]

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