out in the fields

I have found Carl’s poetic description of loose hay to be so for me & my anmals. I only make a little, maybe 75 bales worth, by hand. When I throw it down on the barn floor & start forking it out, all the necks are stretching for some “candy”. I have some small, un-even, stumpy pasture/field areas that I may or may not ever get a mower onto. When the grass gets ahead of the animals in mid-june, and I turn the horses onto the long rank stuff, most of it gets trampled. So I’ll make some hay before turning them on the re-growth. I am doing managed rotational grazing W/ temporary paddocks. I typically mow 3 or 4 50″ swaths in the morning before my desk job. Sometimes my wife turns it at noon, sometimes I sneak home, sometimes it sits till evening. It’s a small enough amount & handy to the barn so that if rain threatens & it’s almost made, I will bring it in (build a good load on the pick-up, I don’t currently have any kind of trailer/wagon) & spread it on the barn floor for a couple days to finish. Along with the benefit of making good, tasty hay from grass that would otherwise be trampled, it gets all the vegetation, so serves as a “pasture clipping”. The horses will eat almost all of it in hay form, including that from the manure “zone of repugnance” that they would not touch as standing grass. I use a european type curved snath from Marugg & various blades.

Loose hay tends to “het out” better because there is better air flow, no hot pockets. I have pushed it, as you have to sometimes, and had a steam hole form at the top of the stack in the mow. There was some temp but nothing dangerous. I burrowed down in to see what was going on. I was told by some that grew up doing it that it happens, and perhaps regularly. Loose hay, because it not crimped has, more moisture in the stems, so there always is some that has to “het out”. In all the hay I put in, I never had any musty or moldy spots. There was often dust, but never mold. Carl

Hi,
Sharon from Delaware here. When I was a child growing up on a diversified 160 acre farm ,we put up loose hay for the animals . My grandfather farmed with horses before I was born near Ithica, New york and the old work horse was buried here in Delaware 1942 when he bought the farm .
We used tractors for the haying job . We would put up about 20 acres at a time ,loaded on a flat wagon using pitchfolks under the instruction of my swiss grandmother. Each forkfull was woven into the load . The load would go as high as 10 ft, getting gradually narrower. The wagon would be backed into the barn and the tractor hooked up to a rope which was hooked to some huge curved blades that were stuck into the 4 corners of the load . It would pull up to a half of wagon load of hay at a time to the top of the barn and then to the back of the loft or anywhere it was wanted and then released Our job was to pull the hay to the sides. There were chutes above the stables below to feed each stall from the mow . All the labor was supplied by us girls . It was some hot, humid ,sweaty work on a hot august day . I remember a competition with the neighborhood boys who had only handled baled hay before . The girls won! I remember sleeping on the ground outside in the summer as it was too hot in the house . We did not have fans .
We have not reached the point where we can work our horses yet . We do mow the pastures with a riding mower when the grass gets too tall and rake and put up that loose hay by hand . The animals do relish that hay . It has been to dry here for the last 3 years to get any of that hay . We also feed all the cornstalks to the horses ,which I have seen the Amish do for food as well as bedding . :)Sharon

Eric, I have a few thoughts. First of all, before the grain economy there was the meat economy. One of the most significant factors in the rise of human population and success, was the perfection of hunting skills and the realization that fresh killed meat could provide so much energy. I know that I do better on a high meat diet. I love my oatmeal, and I really do appreciate good bread, and I’ve got to say I have consumed a lot of beer, but grain food doesn’t do well for me. I get bloated, achy, weezy, etc.. Also, I believe that one of the successes of the grain economy that you reference had as much to do with the cultural power structure that benefited from the agrarian lifestyle.

The choices I have made with farming enterprises have a lot to do with my feeling that perma-culture plays a significant role in sustainability. Raising livestock on pasture is a good way to perpetuate the grasses that they need. Plowing large tracts of land to disturb the soil to prevent forest succession requires a lot of energy, which can be avoided if grass is raised by managing livestock on pasture. Then small tracts of tillage can be patch-worked into the mosaic, with forest enterprises being the most ecologically productive use of our land.

This being said I have, since I got started, thought a lot about growing grains. I recognize the value to my animals for energy, in work and growth. I have designed barns(un-built as of yet) with grain storage. I have done a lot of plowing with my animals over the years, so I have some idea of how energy intensive, and time consuming it is. Several times I used my neighbors corn field to practice. It gave me long, un-interrupted furrows in soil that was friable. Even though it didn’t get work done for me, and he just plowed over my work, it did help me to improve my ability and understanding.

When I tried to plow some of my upland fields, I found shallow fragipan, rocks, and ledge. I even had the occasion to ride over the handles of a walking plow after the beam broke on the backbone of Vermont, green schist ledge. So, as of now, I have very little land that is suitable for growing grains, or for that matter, plowing, and as I’ve said before, we pasture it all anyway. It is something that I want to continue to keep on the radar though, because there will come a time when we will need good grain grown in our area, using draft animals for tillage and harvest.

Peerage is another thing altogether. Although not using horses, yet, Brent and Regina Beidler are growing grains on their Randolph Center Farm, in a small-scale manner. I’m sure Jack Lazor would also be a great resource and inspiration. In both cases, diesel carries the load.

As you probably realize, you are really leading your peer group. It is very difficult emotionally to try to use an Earth-paced energy system in this modern world. Especially tillage. I know very well the sense of isolation. There are several people on this forum who have for years, even decades, worked without peers, forging ahead while the metaphoric crowd of onlookers snickered.

This last summer Lisa sold from her farmer’s market stand garlic and new potatoes, grown in a field that I have cultivated for over twenty years without one drop of petroleum. One of my primary motivations has always been to work the land without fossil fuels. We labeled our roots “Post Peak-oil Produce”, and some people were really appreciative. You got twenty years in you? I wonder if you realize how many of my successes, and failures, have gone un-noticed and un-appreciated in twenty years. The truth of the matter is that until now my conviction against petroleum has held little water for most other people (stiil does, I fear). But if I had reverted, I wouldn’t have the opportunity that exists now, however small it may be. Even still this is a very small field, 1/4 acre, and most of our tillage is primarily for our own produce.

Anyway, among all the other time-consuming projects that we have, I like the idea that there may be ways for us to push the envelope in terms of getting petroleum free grain production in Vermont. It would require a lot of petroleum for me to get my animals to your land, but this probably needs to be an undertaking of small groups that co-operate on suitable land to produce a shared-crop. Chore time, Carl

Very interesting debate among you. My personal feeling is that I’m still hungry if I don’t have a little meat in the meal once a day. I do like to wash it down with a good beer now and again.
For Good Companion, I wanted to put my two cents worth in as far as haying. I put up anywhere from 300 to 800 tons of hay every year. There is no way I can get it all done without some tractor work, given my labor situation.
There are several ways I can incorporate some animal power into this operation and contribute in a meaningful way.
The side delivery rake is the foremost. Just about any team can run one for a day and not be spent too badly.
I do have a JD#4 with a 6′ bar and put it in the field some, but in real thick grass hay it’ll work the dog out of a team and can’t do that much.
Another way I utilize a team is stacking bales. I do have a tractor run stacker and it’s my primary machine for this job. However, when it’s down, I use a ferris wheel type bale picker and a couple of farm wagons with teams. My son, daughter (and occasionally a nephew) and I put in 8000 75 lb bales a couple years ago this way. My stacker was broke and parts are getting harder to find.
My Dad was born and raised on this ranch. It’s part of a bigger ranch owned by his grandfather. He tells me about his youth and haying was the big item for them. One job was to run the teams in at daylight. He said they had 50 hd of horses. Not all worked at once, but they used a good deal of them. They would put 4 mowers in the field everyday. I think they ran 2 stackers when they had the help and off and on 2 to 4 buck rakes. I’m not sure how many rake teams were out at once. They did use one scatter raker per stacker (they used overshot stackers mostly, but I did find what’s left of a beaverslide and a Mormon derick stacker).
If my place were smaller I believe I could get my hay up with horsepower. I think at around 100 head or so of cows to feed I think it could be done. Loose is the way I’d do it. But as it stands I have to use some tractors to get done before snowfall.
My teams get used all winter feeding cattle. It’s a very good use of animal power. My tractors are shedded all winter. I burn no fuel and put no wear and tear on the tractors.
Last year my animals were harnessed over 300 days. They earned their oats at least as much as the riding horses, if not more so.

I think it’s possible. The differences in climate between where you and I live may be enough that I could be wrong. For instance my hay is stored outside in this very dry climate. Spoilage in well made loose stacks in this country is very little. I assume yours would be barn stored? I’m not sure how yours would go up or be fed.
In this neck of the woods there are still some ranches putting hay up loose with machinery powered by tractors. I still think it’s the best way to do it if you can get it done.
As a kid we still put ours up loose. It worked very well.