out in the fields

[goodcompanion]

Does anyone want to share their endeavors related to haying or cropping? I’m curious to hear what other members are doing that’s not in the woods. Do you bring in your own hay with horses? Perhaps plant some oats for your team? Work alone, with family, or a crew?

Just to start off, I have a farm of 110 acres with about 60 in grass. Only about 10 of those acres are arable. However the main means of livelihood from the land is the 10 or so acres of wheat that supply the bakery. I am attempting to move this cultivation towards 100% horse-drawn. I also have access to some neighboring land for cropping and am trying to work up a nice rotation of grain, legumes, roots, and grass. Something akin to the Norfolk four-course rotation. Right now we have all the equipment in place to plant and harvest, and process the grains and beans and grass, but not roots.

I haven’t yet done any haying here. This last year we just started moving beef cows onto the farm and I got the place with a big barn full of hay that is probably going to still be part-full in the spring. However I have a great mower and a hayloader that are ready to go. I’d like to reconfigure the barn for loose hay someday. But loose hay, the labor involved, and perhaps an eventual herd of 60 head or more are hard to reconcile. So I might buy or hay with machinery for at least some of our needs.

The soil here used to be the bottom of lake champlain and is straight clay. It grows nice grass and grain but is tricky to work and has a propensity for wetness wherever water can’t run off rapidly. I’m trying to shape my practices to improve the tilth of a small number of acres rapidly with the surplus manure from the more-extensive beef operation. In short, we would be taking the surplus fertility from the pure pasture and redirecting it towards the cultivation.

[Carl Russell]

Eric, for 10-12 years I put in loose hay with my horses. I don’t anymore as I am married to a grazing specialist now, and we have more animals to pasture then I did then, so all the grass is eaten on the stalk. We buy our winter hay now. But through the 80-90’s I mowed, tedded raked and put in 500-750 bales each summer, loose. I fed 2 horses, a pair of oxen, a milk cow, and a heifer or steer for about half the winter. I don’t have a lot of hay-land, so I just cut what I grew. I would mow for a couple of hours in the afternoon after woods work in the morning. Then over the next couple of days fit in tedding with what ever else, including woods work. I did the work all by myself, so I never cut a lot of hay at any one time, working to get it in in good shape before cutting more. When it was dry, usually 3 days, I would make the biggest windrows I could with a side delivery rake, then on foot I would build stacks with a pitch fork, this way the hay was concentrated for pick up, but also in case of rain the stacks were already built, and could withstand a couple of days of rain, where windrows would get ruined. Then I would move loads to the barn on the truck or on a hay-wagon with the animals. By building the load in layers, i could get a lot on. I had a mow in my neighbors barn that I could toss the hay down into, which was great. As the hay mounded up I would spread it out to the corners and pack it in.
If I kept track of my time against the value of the hay I never earned much more than $10/hr, which doesn’t go that far on the surface, but on top of that I was exposing my horses to diverse working experiences, getting to know my land, observing the results of successive years of field work, getting to know the feed, making the feed I wanted, getting to work my horse, spending glorious steamy summer days working hard on work of my own initiative, etc. Loose hay is fantastic feed. Compared to hay that has had its guts squeezed out then cut and pounded into bales, it shines with sunlight, bends like grass, and smells like summer. My animals loved eating it, I loved working in it in the winter. Like so many thing we do with horses the money thing is tight. If I had wanted to do more, I would have needed help and equipment, but I didn’t need to go through the expense of help or equipment just to make more hay. I just did what I could do, and was satisfied, HAPPY. I also only got 2 good cuts, the first during the second half of June, because I had to wait for warm dry days and nights. Sometimes during Aug-Sept my second cut would get wet all over just from dew. It was good feed, not the scientific top in nutrition, but I wasn’t trying to get that. Carl

[Mark Cowdrey]

I have found Carl’s poetic description of loose hay to be so for me & my anmals. I only make a little, maybe 75 bales worth, by hand. When I throw it down on the barn floor & start forking it out, all the necks are stretching for some “candy”. I have some small, un-even, stumpy pasture/field areas that I may or may not ever get a mower onto. When the grass gets ahead of the animals in mid-june, and I turn the horses onto the long rank stuff, most of it gets trampled. So I’ll make some hay before turning them on the re-growth. I am doing managed rotational grazing W/ temporary paddocks. I typically mow 3 or 4 50″ swaths in the morning before my desk job. Sometimes my wife turns it at noon, sometimes I sneak home, sometimes it sits till evening. It’s a small enough amount & handy to the barn so that if rain threatens & it’s almost made, I will bring it in (build a good load on the pick-up, I don’t currently have any kind of trailer/wagon) & spread it on the barn floor for a couple days to finish. Along with the benefit of making good, tasty hay from grass that would otherwise be trampled, it gets all the vegetation, so serves as a “pasture clipping”. The horses will eat almost all of it in hay form, including that from the manure “zone of repugnance” that they would not touch as standing grass. I use a european type curved snath from Marugg & various blades.

[Rod]

I wonder if the fire danger from spontanious combustion is a s great with loose hay as with tightly baled hay?

[Carl Russell]

Loose hay tends to “het out” better because there is better air flow, no hot pockets. I have pushed it, as you have to sometimes, and had a steam hole form at the top of the stack in the mow. There was some temp but nothing dangerous. I burrowed down in to see what was going on. I was told by some that grew up doing it that it happens, and perhaps regularly. Loose hay, because it not crimped has, more moisture in the stems, so there always is some that has to “het out”. In all the hay I put in, I never had any musty or moldy spots. There was often dust, but never mold. Carl

[Roy]

Eric, I took a look at your website and saw that you use an old binder to harvest your wheat. If you use a hay loader behind your wagon, then putting up loose hay will be no more labour intensive than your wheat harvest. One person can drive the team while a second person in the wagon stacks the hay as the loader brings it on board. Of course you still have to mow and rake the hay, but that has to be done whether you bale or put up loose. The advantage of loose hay is that you can put it up with a higher moisture content, and it seems to be more palatable to the stock. The disadvantage is that it is more difficult to handle, and since it is not compressed, you can’t get as much in the barn as you can with bales.

[dirtywhitehorse]

Hi,
Sharon from Delaware here. When I was a child growing up on a diversified 160 acre farm ,we put up loose hay for the animals . My grandfather farmed with horses before I was born near Ithica, New york and the old work horse was buried here in Delaware 1942 when he bought the farm .
We used tractors for the haying job . We would put up about 20 acres at a time ,loaded on a flat wagon using pitchfolks under the instruction of my swiss grandmother. Each forkfull was woven into the load . The load would go as high as 10 ft, getting gradually narrower. The wagon would be backed into the barn and the tractor hooked up to a rope which was hooked to some huge curved blades that were stuck into the 4 corners of the load . It would pull up to a half of wagon load of hay at a time to the top of the barn and then to the back of the loft or anywhere it was wanted and then released Our job was to pull the hay to the sides. There were chutes above the stables below to feed each stall from the mow . All the labor was supplied by us girls . It was some hot, humid ,sweaty work on a hot august day . I remember a competition with the neighborhood boys who had only handled baled hay before . The girls won! I remember sleeping on the ground outside in the summer as it was too hot in the house . We did not have fans .
We have not reached the point where we can work our horses yet . We do mow the pastures with a riding mower when the grass gets too tall and rake and put up that loose hay by hand . The animals do relish that hay . It has been to dry here for the last 3 years to get any of that hay . We also feed all the cornstalks to the horses ,which I have seen the Amish do for food as well as bedding . :)Sharon

[goodcompanion]

It’s interesting to read all this. Seems with hay there are as many approaches as there are teamsters.

I’m always keen to discuss animal-powered cropping though, and am still searching for peers in the field. I’ve long believed that in the alternative farming sector there is a real lack of representation (at least in the northeast) of sustainable cropping operations. There is a lot of energy centered around better grazing (thanks in part to the vital work of Lisa McCrory and others!) and also plenty of labor-intensive vegetable operations, but what about the intermediate scale crops? Particularly grains and roots–the real staff of life foods.

Personally, if I had to choose between vegetables, meat, and grains, getting to choose only one, I’d choose grain. I could get by on bread and beer. I love grain, everything about it. Except the rats.

The other thing that really engages me about grain is that before gas and before coal, grain was the commodity that made things run. It powered the people, and along with hay, the animals that got the work done before machines took their places. Unlike an economy based on biodiesel or ethanol, both of which are held up as alternatives to petroleum yet require a lot of bending of logic and numbers to envision, a grain economy has been proven to work. So it seems to me that our future is likely to rest upon grain. So why so little emphasis?

Does anyone reading this care about grain as much as I do? I ask this not in an accusatory way. Logging, haying, grazing, all very vital and worthy.

[Carl Russell]

Eric, I have a few thoughts. First of all, before the grain economy there was the meat economy. One of the most significant factors in the rise of human population and success, was the perfection of hunting skills and the realization that fresh killed meat could provide so much energy. I know that I do better on a high meat diet. I love my oatmeal, and I really do appreciate good bread, and I’ve got to say I have consumed a lot of beer, but grain food doesn’t do well for me. I get bloated, achy, weezy, etc.. Also, I believe that one of the successes of the grain economy that you reference had as much to do with the cultural power structure that benefited from the agrarian lifestyle.

The choices I have made with farming enterprises have a lot to do with my feeling that perma-culture plays a significant role in sustainability. Raising livestock on pasture is a good way to perpetuate the grasses that they need. Plowing large tracts of land to disturb the soil to prevent forest succession requires a lot of energy, which can be avoided if grass is raised by managing livestock on pasture. Then small tracts of tillage can be patch-worked into the mosaic, with forest enterprises being the most ecologically productive use of our land.

This being said I have, since I got started, thought a lot about growing grains. I recognize the value to my animals for energy, in work and growth. I have designed barns(un-built as of yet) with grain storage. I have done a lot of plowing with my animals over the years, so I have some idea of how energy intensive, and time consuming it is. Several times I used my neighbors corn field to practice. It gave me long, un-interrupted furrows in soil that was friable. Even though it didn’t get work done for me, and he just plowed over my work, it did help me to improve my ability and understanding.

When I tried to plow some of my upland fields, I found shallow fragipan, rocks, and ledge. I even had the occasion to ride over the handles of a walking plow after the beam broke on the backbone of Vermont, green schist ledge. So, as of now, I have very little land that is suitable for growing grains, or for that matter, plowing, and as I’ve said before, we pasture it all anyway. It is something that I want to continue to keep on the radar though, because there will come a time when we will need good grain grown in our area, using draft animals for tillage and harvest.

Peerage is another thing altogether. Although not using horses, yet, Brent and Regina Beidler are growing grains on their Randolph Center Farm, in a small-scale manner. I’m sure Jack Lazor would also be a great resource and inspiration. In both cases, diesel carries the load.

As you probably realize, you are really leading your peer group. It is very difficult emotionally to try to use an Earth-paced energy system in this modern world. Especially tillage. I know very well the sense of isolation. There are several people on this forum who have for years, even decades, worked without peers, forging ahead while the metaphoric crowd of onlookers snickered.

This last summer Lisa sold from her farmer’s market stand garlic and new potatoes, grown in a field that I have cultivated for over twenty years without one drop of petroleum. One of my primary motivations has always been to work the land without fossil fuels. We labeled our roots “Post Peak-oil Produce”, and some people were really appreciative. You got twenty years in you? I wonder if you realize how many of my successes, and failures, have gone un-noticed and un-appreciated in twenty years. The truth of the matter is that until now my conviction against petroleum has held little water for most other people (stiil does, I fear). But if I had reverted, I wouldn’t have the opportunity that exists now, however small it may be. Even still this is a very small field, 1/4 acre, and most of our tillage is primarily for our own produce.

Anyway, among all the other time-consuming projects that we have, I like the idea that there may be ways for us to push the envelope in terms of getting petroleum free grain production in Vermont. It would require a lot of petroleum for me to get my animals to your land, but this probably needs to be an undertaking of small groups that co-operate on suitable land to produce a shared-crop. Chore time, Carl

[goodcompanion]

I fully intend 20 years or more!

Carl, while I agree that pasture (and by extension, meat and milk) should be the foundation of any temperate agriculture, and the vast majority in acreage of all farmed land, I can’t envision myself living in a culture that runs on primarily meat and milk. For one thing there is perishability, which doesn’t affect us as it has all other historical peoples because of the mighty refrigerator and freezer. So any “relocalized” scenario with meat in a central role has to include this equipment in every household and the means to power and repair it using local means. Or the use of older means of preservation (salting, drying) which involve more loss of nutrients.

Grain on the other hand is inherently nonperishable, easy to store, transport and trade. As you’ve pointed out, not everyone has the right land to grow grain. Most of the state is not suitable (which is not to say that our forebears didn’t try!) But those that do have the right land ought to try, given how empty this field of endeavor is right now.

I can’t recall the exact figures, but I think the total wheat production in all of Vermont is perhaps one or two percent of consumption. This is a problem for sustainability.

[J-L]

Very interesting debate among you. My personal feeling is that I’m still hungry if I don’t have a little meat in the meal once a day. I do like to wash it down with a good beer now and again.
For Good Companion, I wanted to put my two cents worth in as far as haying. I put up anywhere from 300 to 800 tons of hay every year. There is no way I can get it all done without some tractor work, given my labor situation.
There are several ways I can incorporate some animal power into this operation and contribute in a meaningful way.
The side delivery rake is the foremost. Just about any team can run one for a day and not be spent too badly.
I do have a JD#4 with a 6′ bar and put it in the field some, but in real thick grass hay it’ll work the dog out of a team and can’t do that much.
Another way I utilize a team is stacking bales. I do have a tractor run stacker and it’s my primary machine for this job. However, when it’s down, I use a ferris wheel type bale picker and a couple of farm wagons with teams. My son, daughter (and occasionally a nephew) and I put in 8000 75 lb bales a couple years ago this way. My stacker was broke and parts are getting harder to find.
My Dad was born and raised on this ranch. It’s part of a bigger ranch owned by his grandfather. He tells me about his youth and haying was the big item for them. One job was to run the teams in at daylight. He said they had 50 hd of horses. Not all worked at once, but they used a good deal of them. They would put 4 mowers in the field everyday. I think they ran 2 stackers when they had the help and off and on 2 to 4 buck rakes. I’m not sure how many rake teams were out at once. They did use one scatter raker per stacker (they used overshot stackers mostly, but I did find what’s left of a beaverslide and a Mormon derick stacker).
If my place were smaller I believe I could get my hay up with horsepower. I think at around 100 head or so of cows to feed I think it could be done. Loose is the way I’d do it. But as it stands I have to use some tractors to get done before snowfall.
My teams get used all winter feeding cattle. It’s a very good use of animal power. My tractors are shedded all winter. I burn no fuel and put no wear and tear on the tractors.
Last year my animals were harnessed over 300 days. They earned their oats at least as much as the riding horses, if not more so.

[Carl Russell]

Erik, My comments about your expectation for tenure have nothing to do with your stamina, rather with a realistic expectation for how long it may take for your foresight to be valuable to others around you.

I only referenced animal protein as a way to show that many ways have worked successfully in the past.

Even though I recognize that ALL of the things I have of value to me are GIFTS, and I strive to be generous, I am not in this to feed the masses.

I agree about the grain being grown where it can be, and I agree that grains fill a vital role in our future. I would like to see a animal-powered grain project come of the ground, but the energy required will require the involvement of groups of co-operators. This I would like to see. Carl

[goodcompanion]

Carl, I don’t think there’s any real disagreement here.

It seems to me that the question is what motivates us to do what we do when bottom line and community response do not. I have seen operations survive and lead by example without loudly proposing to save the world, fueled through the years by quiet satisfaction with a pleasant, balanced life.

And I’ve seen the converse–those who farm primarily as activists (striving to create an agriculture that will prove a point, or feed the masses, if you will), and burn out. I find the former course more to my liking. I do what I do because it pleases me. So, I think we’re on the same page.

However if we are going to be out there as advocates of animal power, this question of feeding the general public is likely to keep coming up. All the more value to a diversity of approaches and end products. My point is mainly that staple crops are currently under-represented in the movement and the region vis-a-vis their importance in the common diet, and by extension, the sustainability of the communities we live in and depend upon.

[goodcompanion]

@J-L 324 wrote:

I put up anywhere from 300 to 800 tons of hay every year. There is no way I can get it all done without some tractor work, given my labor situation.

That’s a lot of hay.

@J-L 324 wrote:

The side delivery rake is the foremost. Just about any team can run one for a day and not be spent too badly.

I must get one of these. I hope to bring in some hay with mixed traction this year. Do you think loose hay would be practical, then, for a herd of 25-30 brood cows (plus calves, yearlings, finish steers) for a total of about 75 cattle or so?

[J-L]

I think it’s possible. The differences in climate between where you and I live may be enough that I could be wrong. For instance my hay is stored outside in this very dry climate. Spoilage in well made loose stacks in this country is very little. I assume yours would be barn stored? I’m not sure how yours would go up or be fed.
In this neck of the woods there are still some ranches putting hay up loose with machinery powered by tractors. I still think it’s the best way to do it if you can get it done.
As a kid we still put ours up loose. It worked very well.

[Author]

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