How do you know when they are triing hard enough?

hi jen, just for fun, before you cut that tree, hook up reno and pull 90 degrees to the lay of your tree. he can do that. so then when he knws it will move he should go with it. if not he’s being balky and you have to go to plan “B”.

Have you taught him to pull against loads of varying resistance? Many folks pull wheeled vehicles but unless the load is really large most wheeled vehicles do not offer nearly the resistance of a good size log. One of the reasons I like a sled or stoneboat for training and conditioning is that the pulling force that the animal or team must apply to move the load is fairly predictable and is usually about 40% of the total weight of the load on firm, level pasture ground. So if you load a stoneboat to a total weight of 1000 lbs the average pulling force needed to move it will be about 400 lbs. Wagons and wheeled vehicles move with much less resistance, often only 5 to 10% of the vehicle weight. So the team can move a hay wagon weighing 4000 to 8000 lbs with the same effort they need to move the 1000 lb stoneboat.

I condition and train my ox team with varying loads over varying distances. I think of us as a farm team so in training I ramp up to a load that will likely be larger than just about anything I will ask of them in a working situation. Usually, that will be plowing and I know the plow draft will usually be less than 1000 lbs force, so if I work with a 2500 lb stoneboat (1000/0.40) the resistance offered by a plow will not surprise or discourage them. Farm teams need steady endurance so rather than piling on a bigger load, I will increase the working distance.

Logging teams, I think, need to bring a little different mentality. Certainly work all day, but perhaps with more explosive capability with shorter duration and more rest between loads. Carl has said more than once that he expects his teams to approach every pull as if it will be the largest pull they have ever made. That is interesting to me because it is quite different from my approach. My approach is more along the lines of ‘OK boys, you have moved bigger loads than this so let’s go’. Perhaps he and others will comment on how they instill that approach in their logging teams. I am sure some of it has to do with the animals they select, but training has to be a part of it. I think a good logging team is going to be an elite team of animals.

At any rate, if you expect your animals to pull, you need to prepare them to pull. I have seen great looking show teams (working steers) that perform nicely in a show environment but will not pull the hat off your head when it comes to real work. So you have to decide what you want from your team in the limited hours you probably have to work with them.

My approach is systematic and measured, pretty consistent with my background in agricultural research. I know that you are a physician so I bet we share some tendencies in that regard. You can train yourself to assess a load in a couple of ways. One is to just hook on loads of varying size and give it a go and observe. I like that approach but with loads I understand. A few years ago I, along with a few others at Tillers International, measured logging loads over varying surfaces. We wrote up the results in a bulletin that I will attach here. Logging draft is not as predictable as sled or stoneboat draft because you often have the log, or one end of it, dragging on the ground and tilling the soil rather than skidding over the surface. But, you can still learn to assess a load, and together with your observation of how your single or team reacts, do a good job of preparing the team to move any load you choose to hitch them to.

Here is a pdf version of the logging draft measurements.

jenn it appears your horse didnt walk away from his break….mink

Looks like your ready for the big timber now Jen. You better get a paid flannel shirt and a hard hat now that your hooked. Great to hear you and Reno doing well!

Good going Jen. I had a longer response, but then i checked, and you had figured it all out anyway. That hesitant posture is a big one.

I would hitch the chain shorter. Put your hook from the evener right on the first link by the choker hook.

Way to go, Carl

Tim’s response was excellent, and I really can’t add anything to it. I just want to clarify how I see this in the context of how hard your animals are trying.

I think our approaches are basically the same. I condition my animals to learn how to move heavy loads of varying sizes in varying conditions so that they develop a confidence.

What I mean about being prepared to pull the heaviest load they have ever pulled is that if they are just testing the load to see if they can pull it, then they are not trying hard enough. There is a difference in my mind between being big enough or strong enough to move a weigh, and having the desire to try to move it.

For the most part I focus on working loads. I craft my working situation so that I am using the power of my animals in a way that taxes them as little as necessary. This has a lot to do with maintaining stamina and keeping them confident and interested. However, especially in the woods, there are no two pulls that are the same, and there are many extenuating circumstances that can affect the required power. (Not to metion the need to actually get some material moved that makes the time more worthwhile)

So there has to be something that encourages the animals to be prepared to escalate their exertion in a measured way, but also in a way that will certainly exceed the last pull, and to some degree may exceed any other pull that they have ever made.

I see that it starts in the snow bank where Jen was with this log. Rewarding the horse for the effort… the additional effort. It is OK for him to be hesitant, because he is measuring the load, but when he saw that Jen’s intention was that he move forward with it, then he responded with more than he had before. Resting him rewards him, and shows him that his effort will be respected and not abused. Giving him the opportunity to start it several times gives him more opportunities to test whether this is the type of exertion that is acceptable, and it reinforces Jen’s initiative.

This way he will not only become strong enough to move the weight, but he will learn that he has the permission to apply as much power as he needs. In fact, that is what she wants, and that she will be there with him to continue to direct him , and help him to manage that exertion so that he won’t wear himself out.

Again, great job Jen.

Carl

This turned out to be an interesting thread after all. It’s not always as simple as hooking your animal up and going forward. A lot of these situations more experienced people just deal with and don’t think of explaining it to inexperienced teamsters (can’t move it forward, move it sideways, do it in lugs, etc.). Sometimes it’s just a matter of having the confidence in yourself as a teamster, then it just runs down the lines.
Good job Jen and nice horse.