Collar Fit

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  • February 11, 2011 at 6:02 pm #42431
    Ed Thayer
    Participant

    I have been concerned with the fit of the collar on my Belgian. I can get the reccomended 4 finger fit rule at the base of the neck near the throat. The collar never pinches off his windpipe but I struggle with the fit at the sides of the neck as indicated in the photo attached.

    I have an adjustable collar that is supposed to be 24″-27″ and a collar pad that is a 28″. I can get a great fit by removing the collar pad and adjusting the collar and hame straps. As soon as I put the pad on it is really tight on the lower side of the neck. Are the hames too small? They are 26″ general work hames from Meaders. If I loosen the lower hame strap the fit is improved but the hames become loose in the collar.

    This is not a good option. Any ideas on my options?

    Ed

    February 11, 2011 at 8:12 pm #65613
    Does’ Leap
    Participant

    Hi Ed, why not just get rid of the pad? Do you get sore shoulders without the pad? On one horse that I was having trouble with fitting a collar, I replaced the hame strap with a longer one and was able to get a decent fit. Another option is going with a thinner, syntheic pad (presuming that is what you are not using.

    A side note: I haven’t heard of the 4 finger rule. That seems like a lot of space especially fitting a collar on a cold horse. If it is 4 fingers on a cold horse, I could fit 5 or even 6 on my horses when they are lathered. I probably can fit 2 fingers on my collars and have never had a problem with cutting off their wind. Am I cutting it too close?

    George

    February 11, 2011 at 8:27 pm #65612
    Marshall
    Participant

    I am no expert, but I think the four fingers is laying flat not on edge. I always thought a collar without a pad was like shoes without sox.

    February 11, 2011 at 8:49 pm #65614
    Robert MoonShadow
    Participant

    My driving mentor sold me a collar w/ a collar pad for my two (we both have donkeys), said the pad was so I could use the collar on both until I could get another one…to use it to adjust the fit – if I don’t need it, don’t use it, as it’ll really heat them up (we get triple-digits by June, around here). This is with our donkeys, don’t know if its different w/ mules and horses or other areas.

    February 11, 2011 at 11:45 pm #65616
    jac
    Participant

    Hi Ed.. it looks in your foto that the top hame strap is in the middle of the ratchet. If you shift it to the bottom it may have the effect of squashing the collar down and open up the sides but make sure the trace hooks are still on the right place on the collar, you may have to go up a size on the hames…..
    John

    February 12, 2011 at 12:37 am #65608
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    Hard to tel from the photo, but I wonder it the hames are too big? It looks to me that the curve is too high to fit the collar as it is in the pic, and if it was down lower then I imagine there wouldn’t be enough strap to tighten.

    Carl

    February 12, 2011 at 1:59 am #65617
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hi Ed. Good looking horse like it’s head.The arrow in the pic kinda covers the point of draft but it looks to be in the right spot. Very hard to fit a collar and hames from a picture even more so when the horse isn’t pulling but here what I would do if it was mine. Based on what you have said the collar is only too tight when the pad is in. I would put the hame strap in the lowest noch so it bowed over the top colllar then tighten the bottom strap as hard as I could this will force the collar to become shorter and wider. Where you can fit your hand in the bootom of the callar there should be lots of room to make the collar a bit wider by swishing it with the hames. If that dosn’t gain enough room I start bending hames. I often give farm hames a little bend at the top of the sweeny bone. Just below the ring for the lines on our Canadian made hames. Or even better try a set of pulling hames. The last set I bought were from the Sugar Vally Collar shop pulling hames and they came with a little bow as well as more room tho adjust. Very pleased with them on my mares.
    Good luck

    Tristan

    February 13, 2011 at 12:01 pm #65615
    Ed Thayer
    Participant

    George, The four finger rule was with the hand laid flat. I use the collar pad because I assumed it was more comfortable for the horse. The last two times I have worked him I did not use the pad and he seemed to be fine without it.

    I do have the top strap in the lowest ratchet hook and tried to tighten the lower strap. It did not seem to make much difference. I thought about bending the hames as I to thought they needed more curl in them. The neck is very thick on this horse.

    Thanks for the responses.

    ED

    February 13, 2011 at 1:02 pm #65607
    Gabe Ayers
    Keymaster

    Ed-
    I was always told that one hand laid flat should just fit in beneath the windpipe. I also had an old timer from Maine tell me that no matter what it looks like in terms of gap and hame fit, if it works for the horse it is the right fit. In other words, if the horse works comfortably without rubbing or soreness and the tugs extend from the points of the shoulders, then it fits. He said the rest is just for the teamster, not the horse…just one opinion but it has helped me think about the issue for my team.
    -Brad

    February 13, 2011 at 4:31 pm #65609
    Carl Russell
    Moderator
    highway;24805 wrote:
    …..
    I do have the top strap in the lowest ratchet hook and tried to tighten the lower strap. …

    I would reiterate that I think the hames are too big for the collar. I fit the collar to the horse, with or without collar pads…. your choice. Then I fit the hames to the collar. There are three setting for the top strap, but often when set in the lowest setting, larger hames will not fit a small collar effectively, primarily because they are too long between the traces and the hame-strap.

    As I said before, looking at the picture it appears that the curve in the hames is too high, and when lowered to fit, they won’t be able to be tightened. I would try the next sized smaller hames. If you take out the pad, you will need to get smaller hames anyway.

    Carl

    February 13, 2011 at 4:45 pm #65611
    Mark Cowdrey
    Participant

    @Carl Russell 24820 wrote:

    … I would try the next sized smaller hames. If you take out the pad, you will need to get smaller hames anyway.

    Carl

    Carl,
    I would be interested to hear the logic behind this. I assume it has to do with the position of the trace attachment point.
    This is the kind of fine tuning discussion/information that is hard to find anywhere. Excellent thread.
    Mark

    February 13, 2011 at 7:19 pm #65610
    Carl Russell
    Moderator
    Mark Cowdrey;24821 wrote:
    Carl,
    I would be interested to hear the logic behind this. I assume it has to do with the position of the trace attachment point.
    This is the kind of fine tuning discussion/information that is hard to find anywhere. Excellent thread.
    Mark

    Mark, there is a relationship between the collar and the neck/shoulder, and there is the relationship between the collar and the hames. The collar should fit the horse, and the hames fit the collar. If the hames don’t fit the collar, it doesn’t mean the collar is not right for the horse.

    The trace attachment is relative to the overall length of the hame. There is some slight adjustment of the trace within that attachment area using shims or bushings. The adjustments of the hame position relative to the top buckle/strap are pretty significant, an inch at the ratchet, and variable by way of the length of the strap.

    At a certain point, usually at the bigger or smaller settings you lose much room for variability. The shape of the hame and the position of the trace attachment don’t match the shape of the collar as well as they did in the middle area.

    Sometimes you can fit a collar to a horse, and hames to the collar, and the animal can lose weight as he becomes more fit. The collar size goes down, and then the hames will need to be adjusted. At a certain point the hames will need to be replaced to effectively fit the collar. It is the same animal, same harness, but the animal may be right at that point where the two sizes converge.

    Carl

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