Horse wants to Walk Off or Turn completely around As I attempt to Hook

Hey Hunter…. It would certainly help to have an experienced teamster over to see exactly what is going on, but it sounds like a simple matter of getting your communication with you mare tuned up. If she hasn’t been out for awhile, her behavior is pretty typical in my experience and improves alot with repetition and some sweat under the collar.

When I hook to a log, I drive the horse right up to the log so his nose in on the spot I am going to hook my chain on. This helps alot with encouraging them to stand still (facing away from home and the skid) and allows them to see what you are doing. Then I gee or haw them around and back them to the log to hook on.

Where are you located?

@hunterbrooksfarm 36854 wrote:

…… I think she needs repetition …….

She’s getting repetition…… just not what you want.

Two things…

.. never hitch a horse that won’t stand …you need to break the cycle of errant repetition. The horse is telling you that she doesn’t understand what you are expecting from her, so you need to change that. Otherwise she will learn to do exactly what she is doing every time you do what you are doing now..

… and Whoa means stand….. there is no reason to complicate your commands with subtleties of language.

If you search under Stand, Standing, or Horse Standing at the top of the page, you will find several great older threads dealing in detail with these very issues.

Good luck, Carl

I have faced very similar circumstances when I started working horses. My horses were trained for farm work and had never logged. I had too much horse, not enough experience, and no mentor to help out. Five years later, after many mistakes, and some dangerous situations, I believe I have a safe and productive team (now we have 2 teams) of horses who work single and double in all farm and forest environments. For what it is worth, here are my suggestions:

Have very clear expectations of what you want. If you don’t have clear expectations, it is hard to communicate those expectations effectively to your horse. In this case, you want your horse to stand without moving until you are ready to go. Expectations should not be limited to your work with the horse but should pervade every interaction. You are the leader.

Communicate your expectations clearly, compassionately, and unwaveringly. If your horse takes a step, you should have your lines in hand correcting her. Like Carl wrote, “Whoa” means stand. I don’t repeat the command, I just correct with the lines and say “hey” in a low voice. When I write “correct” I mean back the horse to where she was supposed to stand. If your horse wants to turn around to the right to face you, you are there pulling her left line to keep her straight ahead. I advise you to never let go of your lines until your horse stands consistently with our moving over a long period of time (I am talking many months, if not years). If you are finding resistance, it is important to evaluate whether the horse is confused or simply resisting your commands. More often (in my experience), it is the former. If your horse does not understand, you need to be creative in how you might change your communication to get the desired result. If you are convinced she is just resisting, I suggest increasing the pressure until you achieve the desired result. The idea here is that as you increase pressure on the horse, she will choose the path of least resistance (your command) to escape that pressure or discomfort. If you find resistance, it is also important to question whether you are asking too much of your horse.

To back up a step, I would practice these skills – standing, turning, stopping, etc. – in a very familiar, comfortable environment for the horse. It sounds like skidding logs in the woods isn’t comfortable for her, at least at this point. How about pulling a light load around the barn yard? Stop, mess with your chains, correct, mess with your chains, etc. If she can stand for 10 seconds praise her and go. Repeat. Try this again, asking her to stand longer. Try messing with your chains, asking her to stand, and the unhooking from your load and asking her to go. This approach includes concepts of pressure/release, approach/retreat and helps break the horse’s expectations of what you are going to do next. I encourage you to start at a very basic level and move up from there. I have been guilty of “too fast, too soon” and have paid the price and hopefully learned my lesson. If you are getting stuck, go back to the basics and move up from there.

To back up a step further, how is your horse on the ground (i.e. not in harness)? Does she lead on a loose line and vary her speed according to your lead? Does she yield her fore and hind quarters? Head down on command? Can you touch any part of her body without resistance or ticklish spots? Can you drive her with two lead lines attached to her halter? Some would say these a pre-requisites to driving a horse. You can google “horse ground work” and check out material by Perilli, Clinton Anderson, Doc Hammill, and others. You can practice these things in 10 minute intervals every day. These exercises are not “the answer”, but do help establish your leadership and broaden your communication with your horse.

Good luck.

George

@hunterbrooksfarm 36877 wrote:

….. I had her stand there and didn’t let her start off untill she was perfectly still. While waiting I had given her a few good girls, and rubbed/patted her hind quarter…..

It sounds like you had a great day.

It is good that you are looking to reward your horse for doing what you want.

This is my perspective on whoa;

It is a common misconception that Whoa is a command.

I think it is important to understand the basic communication that horses use, pressure and release. In basic round-pen training, the pressure is positively responded to by the horse moving away…… Well they are moving to get to a safe place with no pressure. The reward that you give for complying to your pressure is that you release them, and allow them to stand, safe, without pressure. Because you instigated the pressure, then you also instigate the reward. The safety is something that you have given them. It is the beginning of communication. Horses learn on the release.

When a horse is safe, it stands. If it doesn’t feel safe it will not stand. There is a built in reward system. Pressure (Command to move, execute, respond) and Release (Reward, free, safe, stand).

If we think of Whoa as a command, and we apply pressure to ensure compliance, then we miss a great opportunity to use the language that the horse innately understands. We also confuse the horse, because to them standing is the absence of pressure. They are always looking for some indication that they have been given a release. Petting and praise may make them comfortable, but they are not the same as releasing them from the pressure of your initiative.

Using Whoa as a release/reward can have profound results in effective communication with your horse. Step… whoa…. (reward for successful execution)….. Back….whoa…(reward).

Don’t think of her standing as part of the logging project, think of it as a reward for getting to that point… release her so that you can focus on hitching the chain….. she need know nothing about what you are doing, only that she has been released, given a reward to stand comfortably and wait for your next command.

My horses don’t stand unattended because I have told them to….. they stand because I have released them from the pressure of my working commands. They appreciate that I give them that reward, and they wait for me to give them more to do, because of that.

A horse can find safety on its own, but that kind of safety is fleeting…. waiting for the next pressure. If they find that they can trust a protector, or a leader, to give them safety, they will be attentive to that leader’s initiative. In my mind, using this to our advantage is the basis for the teamster’s craft.

Carl