[aaronlee]

@goodcompanion 16944 wrote:

This site is dedicated to those who use animal power to perform real work and therefore probably make money.

Doing real work with your animals and making money with them are two totally different things. You can do a whole host of things around your farm with animals that won’t make you a dime, but they might help to differ the cost of outside inputs, like firewood vs. heating oil or manure vs. fertilizer. What they might be doing for you is saving you time, and time vs. money is a whole other topic.

I did not mean to imply that the folks on this site were not doing real work with their animals, and a good many of them might be making money with them.

I wrote the post for folks who might not be as handy as some or are just getting into horses and happen to come across this site looking answers.
If the only things written in the shoeing horses thread are that you should be able to do it yourself and that your farrier is ripping you off, some folks might not find that all too helpful. If someone can trim their horse’s feet, great, but if they can’t and have to pay, they need to know that they are paying for highly skilled specialty service.

The Romans had a saying, “no foot no horse.”;)

Thanks, Aaron

[aaronlee]

Hi all,

As someone who recently finished a farrier program and is currently doing an apprenticeship I’ve been following this thread with some interest. It has been said a few times already that shoeing a horse is not rocket science, and I totally agree, but it is something one has to learn before it should be undertaken by anyone.

Iron Rose, Mathew, and Carl already made great points about learning to take care of your horses’ feet. To reiterate: find a good farrier, maybe he or she will let you ride with them one day a week for awhile. Go to school, I would suggest one at least six weeks long, this will get you just enough education that you won’t lame your horse with your rasp and nippers. Get Principles of Horse Shoeing 3 by Doug Butler, it is pretty much the textbook of horseshoeing.

What I would like to talk about is the cost of horseshoeing. To my limited knowledge, there is nothing about horses that is cheap. Unless you are truly using your horse to make you money, owning a horse will always be a financial loss. Your farrier is not just the person who shows up every 6 to 8 weeks, he or she should be a business. Hopefully a good business–just because it only takes them 20 minutes to trim your horse doesn’t mean it didn’t cost them money to do it. All the tools, shoes, nails, pads, and gas cost them money. Whether or not they use any particular one of these on your horse on a given day doesn’t change the fact that this is all necessary inventory to attend to every horse’s diverse needs or ailments. And until they sell these products to you they are losing money on them.

Being a farrier is one of those awesome jobs where the learning never stops or at least shouldn’t, so going to clinics and seminars costs them money, too. And of course there are the things that are hard to quantify, like experience, skill, and the mastery of an art, just like farming with horses. It might only take them 20 minutes now, but some time before they showed up at your barn it took them a lot longer, trust me.

If you want to save money, using the cheapest guy or the latest greatest “not a horse shoe” thing, is not always the best way to go. Like Iron Rose said, you get what you pay for. What you could do is see if only shoeing the fronts is an option. If your horse doesn’t need shoes and the terrain and work you’re doing allow it, try going bare foot, but I would ask a farrier what they think first. See if you can go to a longer shoeing cycle. And lastly, move to an Amish community. 😉

Long story short, if you are being asked to pay $120 to $250 depending on your horse and it’s needs, you are not being fleeced, you are paying your farrier a livable wage for doing a job not a whole lot of people want to or can do. Again, like paying more for produce, or meat that was grown in a loving and sustainable way.

PS: Just for fun, if you think I’m full of it go out and stand under your horse the way your farrier does for 20 or 30 minutes and then tell me what you think. 🙂

Thanks for reading, Aaron

[aaronlee]

Hi all,

They say a picture is worth 1000 words. Here is an agricultural front shoe for a draft horse. This is a general purpose shoe made for plowing and field work.

I made this shoe today with my instructor. It’s made from 18 inches of 1 1/4 by 1/2 inch steel. It has heel caulks and a toe clip. I don’t think many people put these on anymore in the US but I could be wrong? I think mainly because it’s a pretty labor intensive shoe to build.

Aaron

[aaronlee]

Hey Guys,

The pads work by keeping the snow from melting ie.. sticking on the metal shoe.

We have been putting these pads on a lot of pack horses out here destined for hunting camps.

Jason I’m sure you can get these pads at any farrier supply store. I just checked Meaders Supply and it turns out they are having a sale on them. They go anywhere from 6 to 10 bucks a pair.

The trick to them is trimming them to fit the heel and riveting them in place, again you do this back at the heel.

We just drill a hole in the heel and use a brass or copper slate tack with the head of the tack on the foot side of the shoe. You push it through the pad and the shoe, then cut off all but 1/4 inch or so and pein it in place.

If you didn’t have a tack but did have a forge you could punch a nail hole in the heel and use a nail. If you go this route drive the nail through in the regular fashion and then cut and fold it over. Make your fold toward the outside as this will help pull the pad against the shoe.

Hope this helps

Aaron

[aaronlee]

The mules in the pics are just the 2 I did, but really there was a pen with 20 something mules in it that looked just like them. It was awesome!

Aaron

[aaronlee]

Hey Taylor Johnson

I am at the Montana State university horse shoeing school.
So far this has been a great school to go to, it runs longer than a lot of programs and includes a lot of hands on experience.

And yes you should try and get out to the NEAPFD. 🙂

Aaron

[aaronlee]

Mr. Colby,

Good to hear from you. The Mrs. and I should be home by x-mas!

Today in class we’re going down to Yellowstone nat park to pull the shoes and trim all the park mules.

I’ll try and get some pix up, we’ll see.

Aaron

[aaronlee]

Robert,

According to the GOL people the US forest service has done a bang up job keeping Game of Logging out of the western part of the country. I did a goggle search and found a course that happend last year in Wa.

In another post on here there is link to (http://www.TimberGrowers.com) for a fellow in Wi. If you go to the site and scroll down past all the beautiful flooring you will find a book dvd section on directional felling. I have not seen these dvd’s but people on this site have spoken highly of Mr. Birkemeier and there not very expensive.

Hope this helps.

Aaron

[aaronlee]

Hi all,
I just spent the day with David Birdsall. I did the GOL level 3 course in Bristol VT. He is a really good guy and a good instructor, I learned a lot. Just to re-hash what Jason and others have said, but from the newbee perspective.

Taking a chainsaw training course is key to getting a good start at felling trees. I took level 1 three years ago at Carl’s place and it helped me so much in the woods after that. There are so many things going on in the woods, that having someone who really knows how to run the saw and can explain it so it makes sense is awesome. If you haven’t grown up with a saw in your hands or even if you have, learning how to safely evaulate situations that could be really dangerous is super helpful. What I mean by that is if you’re new to felling trees than you might not know all the things out there that can hurt you.

Getting the tree on the ground is half the battle, once the tree hits the ground there are a whole new set of problems to solve. These are things you learn through experience, and having someone with a lot of experience to show what’s going on will really help you climb the ladder to a safer place faster.

I love dropping trees and using the GOL technique is the only way I know how, and I’m not sure I would like it as much doing it the with the older methods. Having the ability to walk away from a tree that you have cut into and left standing to think things over a bit is really nice.

With all that said, after all the skidder and harvester talk subsided yesterday I was able to plug animal traction as a viable power source in foresty, and the DAP community as a place to learn and ask questions about it. I talked up the field days being held as a place to actually see too.

Thanks for reading, Aaron

[aaronlee]

Thanks for the heads up Geoff. I’ll do a little poking around and see what I can find.
Aaron

[aaronlee]

Hal if you go to http://www.horseshoes.com you should be able to get all your question answered. Bruce Mathews is also listed here somewhere and you could talk to him.

Aaron

[aaronlee]

Plowboy are those pics from this year. I only say this because as I look outside right now there is a foot of fresh snow and another foot still to fall tonight.

Aaron

[aaronlee]

Awesome stuff guys.

Carl it might sound wierd but I would have never thought to go tire kicking for a horse. It makes total sense to do so just to see what is actually being offered at what price. I know riding with some farriers will help a bunch too, if nothing else it should give me a good idea of what good feet look like. The mare at home has bad feet so I know what they look like:)

Donn the vet thing is funny only for the reason that my partner in crimes father is a large animal vet, and I would have never thought to take him along on the pruchase of a horse. Mainly because he dose not like horses, although that might make him perfect for the job ( no bias).

Thanks for all the info.
Aaron

[aaronlee]

Thanks Carl. No that wasn’t too much backround. I do try and gain knowledge where ever I can. Thats why this site is really great. For the wanabe, dreamer, or someone who is just getting curious about animals as a power source, the wealth of information here is so helpfull. Although nothing beats being around a skilled teamster.

For the inexperienced and experienced person the discussions on this fourm are an important place to gain information about the craft.
Having civil conversations with experience people about what it really take to have a working relationship with a large sentient being is realy helpful for people. Not only to help them plot a course for there own future, but also just to show them thats it’s possible.

So far the two bigest things I’ve come away with from DAP are the amount of intangibles that are involved, and that there is more than one way to find your way to an understanding of them. Knowing that there are intagables is the first step, but applying them is diffinetly were the learning sinks in.

Case in piont, Skidding a log down the hill in the snow. If you flip though the pics on this site you will Carl, Jason, Donn, and many others ingaged in what looks to be more fun than 1 person and some large animals are allowed to have. What you don’t see and can’t see untill you do it are all the intangables, like speed of the animal, position of the log, staying upright in on slipper surface, and the direction of the animal. Maybe the definition of a teamster could read someone with the skills in the managment of intangibles as related to animal power. 🙂

That being said reading is great and it helps keep your fire hot when your life situation is not exactly what you want, ie I or you currently do not own a draft animal. So please keep up the good work.
Thanks again
Aaron

[aaronlee]

Thanks Donn I plan to.:)

Aaron

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