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Lib,
your points on Jerseys are on spot. if you dont need anything bigger, go for jerseys.
not to mention jerseys are very unlikely to have nearly as much hoof issues as holsteins would…
so i wont talk you out of it.
however, since jerseys are reputed to be wilder than holsteins, and being your first oxen, i suggest that you pick your calves carefully and have good feedback on temper of their parents.Erika’s right, it is a good idea to keep an eye out for a good pair of cross-breds. medium-sized animals were once a standard on farms who used oxen as a power source. i guess medium size is the best all-rounder in oxen. best ration of feeding and work capacity.
3. there is a good reason. holstein is a race car of diary breeds, and for this reason it’s metabolism is really biologically pushed to the limit for top milk production. they’re constantly walking on the edge, on one side top production, on other metabolic disturbances…
jerseys are not so much selected, and their metabolism doesnt suffer that much. maybe that’s why…with children, it’s safety first, as we all know. and safety in oxen isnt connected to body size, but to tameness. even the smallest of steers with “wrong” temper can distaste children and adults off having bussiness with oxen, if not (God forbid!) hurt them. on the other hand, even 7-y.o.’s can handle docile cattle towering above them, like them huge holstein-chianina crosses in 4-H.
just as in your first car, get a cheap, good one you like to start with. and maybe your oxen will save the day one day, having capable draft animals may provide a significant edge to farmers, if the economic situation continues to go this way.
bivolParticipantLiberty, your remarks on bad points of your cattle are good! – no point investing in an animal that doesn’t have the constitution to work!
if there’s no hurry, than you can pretty much tailor your oxen to your desires… only, do it on more cows, like at least three, cause it’s 50% chance calves will be female.
that jersey X BS bull seems promising, just when mating him to a cow, make sure she’s dominant in horns – polled is usually recessive, so if you mate him to a horned cow, you oughta get a horned calf. but gene strength it’s also breed dependant.
what breed do you plan to cross him to, to get calves?
an idea: when thats bull has served his purpose in a few years, you could castrate him and train him too… you should only profit form his stronger constitution. there are lots of cattle being worked both polled and singly in yoke, and there’s nothing wrong with it – you just need britchen.if tailoring calves, mind that 1% ox calves that cant be trained – they either show open resentment to teamsters, or to other calves. oxen have prefrences, like we do, and sometimes teamed up calves cant stand each other’s guts. you can see that by them being as far as possible in any situation they can be.
when looking for calves, see how they get along, and are they reasonably inquisitive/friendly to you. that goes for calves born at your place as well as for those bought.on hoof colour….
i believe there are differences. my family back in serbia, who keep cows, say that they like light hooves because cows trimm their own hooves while kicking the concrete, standing in the stall.there is also another issue: how the hooves preform in wet weather – i know dark hooves are more likely to crack in dry and hot weather, while lighter hooves dont crack in hot weather. but when humid, lighter hooves are softer and and wear down faster. tis what i know on the subject.
holsteins…. they grow big, and i dont know where i red it, but they can have have a pretty short life span (10 years instead of 15) and have to be put down because of hoof problems. this is what i heard. what do other members say?
if shod, there are no problems even for light hooves. in serbia and whole of balkans simmenthal oxen make the bulk of working cattle – they’re big, strong and docile, but have to be shod for hard work.
this hoof matter is gettin a bit “serious”, so reckon i’ll head out and get an answer from my physiology professor, so we know for sure! 🙂
bivolParticipantLibery, welcome!
shoeing is an itchy matter becasue there aren’t many people who can do it even up in Maine, where oxen are numerous- shoeing cattle is completely different than shoeing horses, so much is clear. it’s a bit more complicated because the hoof wall, through wtich the nails are inserted, is thinnner than in horses, and if no done properly, it can badly cripple the oxen. shoeing can be taught by practising on hooves got from the butcher, as said in “Oxen; the teamster’s manual”.
generally, to shoe or not to shoe are questions dependant on the breed of steers you’re using and on what, and where, they will be doing their work.
things to mind:
1. hoof color
first thing you have to watch out for are the hooves. the darker the hooves, the tougher they are and the slower they wear down. originally wild cattle were all dark-hooved, but some modern commercial breeds (holstein, simmentaller) will be light hooved. others will have darker hooves (jersey, beefs).this goes together with size of cattle. and the bigger the cattle, the more pressure there is on the hooves, and thus faster hooves wear down, especially if they’re light coloured, meaning softer.
2. surroundings
generally, oxen doing light farm work don’t require shoes. they require them in case they work hard, or work on stony ground, gravel, or asphalt, whch wears down the darkest of hooves. doing forestry work is also one instance where hooves are desired, because of traction and all matter of things oxen stand on in the woods.3. amount of work
for moderate and light work oxen usually dont need to be shod. oxen with dark hooves doing farm work on non-rocky soil dont require shoes. however, this is not without any exceptions, always look at the hooves, and if they look worn down, better give them rest than wear hooves to the nerves.all that said, i think you’re lucky because you don’t have your oxen yet. this means you can pick breeds that are less trouble concerning hooves and temper.
what i’d look for are medium sized animals with dark hooves, easy tempers and a reasonable price tag. they’re powerful enough to do most farm work, including plowing, and their sizer doesn’t stress their dark hooves. also, being docile, they wont overwhelm you while you’re learning.
brown swiss – a good breed, managable, big and strong, but slow (generally!). either way, temper is inherited form parents, so in picking calves it pays off to have some info on parent’s temper.
dutch belted are fine steers too i guess, if the price tag is OK. they’re also uniform in color, and a heritage breed in USA.
ayrshire are fine, too, but they can be somewhat nervous, otherwise OK in size and hoof color…
breeds… if i were you, i’d go for a Brown Swiss x jersey cross if i could get a hold of the calves.
bivolParticipanti really like the dark-brown body setzup, together with light colored bows! i thought those iron chains were painted on patterns! ifi i ever make a yoke like that, it will be in those colors!
bivolParticipantthanks Tim for making the effort to make this vid! it’s great!
at 2:07 i thought: “the stoneboat could fit a folding chair on it!”:D
bivolParticipantyou’re right, i forgot about that sentence! even the ttraditional chinese L-shaped yoke has it’s good points, IF made and used correctly…
and you explained these points nicely, and i finally understand one of the biggest advantages of forehead yokes: there are no “tricks” behind the forehead yoke (given the animal has horns), no danger of injuries as in other designs!
i wanted to ask you about the forehead yoke as well, do you think animals mind (or dislike) pushing in the forehead yoke, becasue they have to adjust the line of draft all the time? how would you compare it to a neck yoke, especially in controlling a wagon, and on heavy loads?i assume some dangers of American neck yoke design are because bows are in perfect U- shape. in Croatia are actually made in teardrop-shape, and it’s my guess that these arent that dangerous to use, as they spread the pressure in not perfect conditions. (these could by my local bias, though!!)
bivolParticipantElke, Wolfgang, thank you! we are OK, but still we had some difficulties and had to pitch in – luckily, it’s fine now, but it’ll still be some time till i save enough again.
if i will be able to somehow come up north, i’ll be sure to tell you in advance!The oxlogger says that the ox pulls more with the yoke than with the three-pad-collar
so, it’s official now 0.0… i remember reading once on this forum that oxen can pull more with American neck yoke than with with 3-pad collar, i was a bit skeptical, but now i guess it places the neck yoke on #1 as best design (though i doubt Rolf Minhorst will agree).:D
bivolParticipantWolfgang, how are other people excepting these yokes? are they happy? is there more interested people? is that hornless Rotvieh cattle, or Limousine? waah, too many questions from two pictures!
about coming to Germany this summer: unfortunatelly i wont be able to visit you nor Elke…:(
some unexpected things happened in family, and i had to give the money i saved. i tried to send you a PM, but i think it failed, so i am telling you (and you too, Elke) in this way. i’m sorry for the inconvenience and for telling you this late!bivolParticipantnice pics!
Wolfgang, i noticed the american style yoke on single ox – did you make it? it seems the technology is spreading in Germany!:)
bivolParticipantout of a loose-loose situation you picked the lesser to loose.
selling livestock you’re attached to is one dark side of farming. still, just because it was (and is) customary to do so, don’t blame yourself for not being able to copy it! and that goes for selling as well as killing – some people, no matter weather growing up on farm or in a city, just aren’t cut for it – i’m not, for one, and that’s nothing to be ashamed of!there is another thing.
some things are not yet meant to happen. we human don’t see the entire picture yet. and no matter how hard we may try, our schemes wont work until it’s time. i believe it’s not yet the time or the right chance.bivolParticipantHi Nat!
sorry to hear you have to let Angus go.
it is sad, but it’s a good thing you’re thinking this over seriosly, because love or no love, having animals will always lead to a sad end (weather natural or otherwise) after all the joy, there is no escaping this part of animal husbandry!anyway, i got this idea… why not try to sell him (or give him away) to a Hare Krishna farm? i know there is at least one cow protection manor in England. they should like taking in a big, (mostly) trained ox they could employ him within the same week.
all the more because there aren’t a lot of working oxen in England should make your case stand out.May 23, 2011 at 1:20 am in reply to: Oxen make the NY Times/Includes discussion of large scale animal-powered operations #66929bivolParticipanti’m sorry to chip in so late (again), but i have a few things to say bout city people going back to farming…
it’s about the notion that city folk would “rather starve to death” than pick the shovel up.
it’s not so.
why?
because i’ve heard of a few examples… our professor told us what he saw then he visited Romania back in 1993. that was 3-4 years after fall of communism he visited their capital city, and all around it (it was fall or eary spring) he saw old Dacia cars, parked right in middle of tended fields of black soil, about 100 meters apart, with entire families tending their plots. and mind that romania had, as any communist country, a large population of population in cities. OK, romanians were “better prepared” for disaster because they hung there for quite some time (and as in any communist country, people learn to get by and be resourceful), but nothing says our western city folk wouldn’t pick the tools up if there would be a REAL NEED; like their stomachs growling… oh, i believe they would, it’s only they and everybody else don’t believe they would, but believe me, if hunger comes, they’ll trade their cellphone for a shovel all right! they don’t need to go to the countryside, city has enough spaces… case: cuba.but, it wont happen without a real NEED! that be a real chronic food shortage!
OldKat, distribution has nothing to do with ideology, in fact some of the most successful distribution was in GB during ww2.
as for communists, some most idiotic ideas of the 20th century were concieved by overly eager communists, but they were “special” both in mental depriveness and contact with reality…(cambodia: lol, they killed every intelectual they could: it was enough to wear glasses to be shot; Mao’s china: he starved more than were killeed in chinese civil war, plus he destroyed the 5000 y old culture china had – damn, Stalin would be envious!) i wouldnt even take these regimes into account in any serious debate… they deserve a FAIL sign seeable from the Moon.on the other hand, probably the best example of a fast urban re-ruralization happened in a communist country: cuba. when food exports stopped, the city population began to plant and grow food in cities as well as repopulation the countryside. and i believe they unlike romainans were not so familiar, by large, with farming.
so, it ha nothing to do with someone’s ideology, it hasd more t o do with seriousness of the situation and the asic framework (legal, instructions, basic materials) the state can provide in case of food shortages… empty stomachs will provide the will to work.May 10, 2011 at 7:18 pm in reply to: Oxen make the NY Times/Includes discussion of large scale animal-powered operations #66928bivolParticipanti dont mean to say farming 1000 acres with a 100 oxen wouldn’t be POSSIBLE, it’s just that it’s IMPRACTICAL!
i mean, ok, you will want to do it, and you will do it, noone doubts that. but will you be pleased or over-worked from working on such a huge farm? checking 10 different people, overseeing how they work, overseeing the care of animals, and then, planting all that, keeping the weeds under control, harvesting, and all. personally, i’d burn out.
and what about other people? tenant is easier whey you own this huge piece of land… that’s why it WAS used in the past (and present), with all its good and bad sides.so, i won’t tell farming a huge farm with ox power is impossible, it’s just not feasable to catch on…too many people wouldnt want to tackle such a huge task, and even if they would , it’s likely to use horses and mules for this kind of big farm (1000 cares). there was a reason, after all, why horses were used and prefered to oxen in bigger farms: speed. as much as i love and prefer cattle to horses, i’l admit they’re faster.
personally, i’d farm a small or medium farm with oxen, ok, even a bigger farm (like with 16 oxen hitch they used in South Africa), but i wouldn’t venture anywhere NEAR farming a 1000 acres either alone or with help in a centralized manner a direct farming system (no tenants) requiers. just my 0,02 $.
about scale, animals themselves are the central issue in:
i see i explained myself wrongly; i dont think small scale itself wont work, i mean that small-ness has a minimal size when talking about draft animals, and that it’s not prudent to have draft animals on a plot under a certain acerage:
if you have a small plot, say 4 acres, you better farm with 1 or at most 2 draft cows, cause oxen or anything else aside from pure human muscle will eat the major share of what that small farm brings. scale isnt just about numbers, it’s also about fitting in the animals AND making a living off the land.why farms need to be tenanted?
because it gives living space to more people. more people live on and off the land, and that’s a good thing.
also, because of social peace and integrity. if you were to be in a situation to seriously consider shifting your large-scale farming to ox-power, how would the rest of economy be likely to look? and would there be a place (in the economy) for this much people to be living in the cities? on what economic grounds? or wouldn’t it be better to enable them to go back back on the land and work it, and so solve the problem of employing and feeding them?May 9, 2011 at 8:05 pm in reply to: Oxen make the NY Times/Includes discussion of large scale animal-powered operations #66927bivolParticipantCarl and Ixy, right on target: WHY insist on huge farms?!
i mean, today we do have big farms, but it would all work better as far as draft animals are concerned if these huge farms would be chopped off into smaller sub-units, either as protected tenants, or sell it off to make smaller farms.
they wouldn’t even exists in modern huge sizes if it weren’t for modern machinery and chemicals, and that says something!
Erika, there’s an interesting thought: fuel prices and shifting back to animals isn’t always the most productive way to go, and yes, it DEPENDS ON THE SIZE of the plot! too much – animals wont be able to do the work it comfortable, too small – animals need a certain minimum on land, too. total market yield is smaller.
but for a right sized farm shift to animals power could work in favor of money!so if one has a huuge farm – either chop it off in to managable pieces (and tent them), or sell the extra land and work what you can manage on family scale!
and family scale is important – todays culture and people are way too individualistic to join or live in some sort of farming commune as in middle ages… family sized farms suit our culture the best, IMO.
as for huge estates – they existed in europe and my scountry, to, but they were owned by nobility, and often the owners had no real interest in getting the maximum out of their land. they were content with rents, while some parts of the estate were not used. if huge farms would continue to exist in a post-fuel era, i’m afraid that any individual owning lots and lots of land, with lots of small tenant farms, would hold just too much power in his/hers hands… i’d opt for chopping up or protected tenant.bivolParticipanti see… so if one’s a plodder, i’ll try this way.
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