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wow, that IS a lot of change (and glad to be back)!

i do believe you have it busy!
well, you could feed Raisin more, if he’s not grown up totaly you could use “compansatory growth”. like aside from normal food feed him oats in skimmed milk, together with garlic (does wonders for health). ofcourse, depends for how much trouble you think is worth or how much time you have on your hands (guess that’s a real problem).

ill try to be a bit more active now!

regards
Marko

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Hi Ixy, oops, Nat! 🙂

well, let’s see…

*sidenote: hello everyone, im back, sorry it took me this long!*

you’re not insane, ofcourse! IMO putting a yoke on two equally sized animals is never bad, given they get along (which, in this case, they do)

At the age of two and a half, or three years at most, we should begin to tame and accustom him to the yoke. If longer delayed, he often becomes perfectly ungovernable. Patience, mildness, and even caresses, are the only means which should be employed. Force and harsh treatment serve no other purpose than to dispirit and render him totally unmanageable. He should be stroaked [sic] and caressed; … Some [444] days afterwards, he may be yoked to the plough along with another ox of the same stature, which has been previously trained. They should be tied up together at the manger, and led to the same pasture, in order to make them thoroughly acquainted, and acquire the habit of having always the same movements.

from The OX

I rest my case.

and yes, a lot of people have trained older animals successfully, and wild ones at that, not tamed well behaved and small Jerseys.

so, if you like, first tie them both up with collars on neck and let them run on pasture for a while to get used to moving together.
then simply yoke em up in your yard on in some place they feel safe and familiar. yoke em up, put a halter and lead them about dragging a small peace of wood. that should work.

after that come the commands, etc, and then it’s a matter of polishing.

Conroy said that its doable, and you dont feel the difference in age of animals later on.

So, don’t give up! 😉

Marko

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Andy, now that you mentioned sunflowers, this gave me an idea. granted, im miles away from any REAL knowledge on crop rotation (hope it will change soon) but going back to sunflowers, hemp and alike: they’re what i’d call “choker” plants, since they’ll choke the living daylight (literally) out of any weed that goes up on them.in fact, hemp was used as a means of weed control way back before pesticides…
yes, i believe min-plow would do the trick just as good.

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yes i thought manure would be an issue…

in a perfect world (read: no financial worries) a methane digester could cut the manure issue… but it all comes back to dollars…

but yea, manure is a problem…

 

Roscoe, what is Roundup?

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improving yoke design on HUMPED cattle is always a bit trickly. ofcourse i salute their efforts, and new yoke is obviously better then the old design.

but, because the anatomy of humped oxen and their potential load bearing surface is different of that of humpless breeds, i’d maybe suggest tinkering in a direction that  would, aside from the newly made changes, also try to exploit the hump area.

i’ve tinkered with a similar questions a long time ago and came up with a “saddle-seat” type of yoke, as the drawing shows.

it’s meant to be made out of a block of wood, as showed in pic. it would self-level itself and be worked like a harness, with 2 ropes ans a singletree.

the other yoke design (the one in top right) is actually very similar to bosnian type of yokes, and i believe this type of yoke could also prove to work properly, as it has a rounded neck seat.

aside of these suggestions,  i think changes already made on the field are significant!

Marko

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Hi People!

i was really moved by you all, thank you! thank you for wishing me welcome!

recent days i’ve had “problems” (while transiting to the new page) so i couldn’t know how to reply until now  (sorry about that).

i’ve liked the old forum, but the new one promises to be awesome!but as the forum is not yet fully operational, i cant see names of some of you, so i will do my best to answer like it is.

Erika, i still intend to become a teamster when i retire X) oxen, of course! but first i gotta do what i gotta do!

Andy,  will see to translate it to English during summertime, but it may not be very interesting, as it deals with problems of draft animal potentials in Croatia. on the other hand, it may be VERY interesting!

It’s name is “Draft animals – history, problems, perspective.

In it i intend to focus on giving a quick overview on main draft animals in Croatia, horse, ox, cow, and maybe donkey and mule, their history, overview of how to work them, their possible uses and problems associated with their use (like social stigma, association with poverty, old bad technology – the interesting bits!), and showing modern draft animal implements and their perspective.

in Croatia there was never a single academic work mentioning the hands-on aspect of working draft animals i know of: “it was known”, that belonged to oral rural lore, but with mechanization  that knowledge got lost.

this is that i want to write my thesis about. i will defend it by saying that draft animals still have their niche market and place by showing development in in developed countries, and so there is no reason not to use them accordingly. Croatia being at least 20 years behind developed Europe, i can see this thesis doing some good in the future…

it’s limited to about 20 pages, so it will only encompass the roughest of basics on draft animals, the like of any of us having in their little finger…

To be honest Elke, i was feeling somewhat detached at one point, but now i’m glad i came back, if something is your passion and love since teens, it’s there to stay!

as am I on this forum!

having said that, i will have less time o my hands (tell you about it a bit later) but i’ll stick around. if you need me and I’m not there at the moment, please send me a message via E-mail!

But I WILL stay detached, it’s “on the right place” feeling!

 

Marko

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thank you all for your support, i really appreciate it!

Elke, i would indeed like to have a few pics in my article (i drew some stuff, but there’s nothing like true pics to make it more real)

so, thank you very much, i’d love to have some pictures! are they from oxen or cows?
stuff like cattle (preferably cows) working where the system is clearly visible, say hanessed to a wagon or a plow.

but anything is OK, really!

Thanx Elke!:)

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yes, like that!

there are loads of great blogs concerning all matter of agriculture, sustainability and draft animals online, and we virtually stumble on them by accident. this could be a major improvement – we really need to be well connected!

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Roscoe,

not sure what you meant there with “offset yoke”. and on a cart? what kind of cart?

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hi!

thre’s not much info on mixed teams even online.
this much i know:

working mixed teams is not so usual. it is done to compensate for lack of power in a situation where there is no other option.

animals of different species are lot harder to make to work in unison.

red once there was a woman in Ethiopioa who used a mixed team, one donkey and ox. she said secret to her success was in using a different language for every animal.

Conroy makes a reference to mixed teams, stating that even the farmers who use them agree it is not the best solution.

i have a hunch that in order to work, both animals mush be accustomed to working, and mush know each other.

but still, working mixed teams might be more usual than though.

to that end, you might want to check this out:
http://burggen.im.pfaffenwinkel.net/bilder_04.html
NOTE how ox and horse walk in unison!

http://www.razyboard.com/system/morethread-ochsentreffen-ecomusee-d-alsace-2010-zugrinder-244288-5880711-10.html

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ok, thanks!

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Hi folks!
i’m also interested in breeding mules (and hinnies!), but for now i’ll have to settle for asking questions…

this may be beginner stuff, but….

i’d like to know if your mare/donkey was raised to be a mule-breeder, or is s/he just your regular mare/donkey?

question explanation: in mule breeding

– mares are reluctant to be bred by donkeys, so it is considered that mule producing mares:
1. shouldn’t be humped by a stallion before they have a go with a donkey, or otherwise they’re reluctant to breed from him
2. that mares dont like donkeys if they before had anything to do with stallions.
3. that mares have to have their mane and tails cut short, or else they don’t allow the donkey to hump them.

– donkeys:
they have to be raised around mares to wanting to hump them…

in books they all say this stuff in necessary, but i dunno….

what’s your experiences, any of that true?

or, you can post me a link to a thread dealing with these issues

thanks!
Marko

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i do believe they were.

this is an old method, but i dont know how menagable the steers would be after it for farm work as a single team.
i mean, this method is best used on big teams of at least six animals, where only the wheelers and leaders are given a bit more training, while other oxen just learn to pull, follow and stop.

this is ofcourse a good basis (oxen already know the concept of being yoked, pull, sop and go), but as what needs to be dont to make them truly a farm team…. i mean, theres definitelly polishing to be on on the tem to say the LEAST. not to mention extra price tag…

but then again, with calmer steers and good, regular real work ahead i think getting even half-trained steers is a good thing for a novice needing ox power fast.
he gets young but adult, yokable steers who know to pull. and price tag is lower than a fully trained team.

can’t say, i like this idea more and more the more i think about it.

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@Countymouse 29305 wrote:

I think I would be most interested in getting an older team. They wouldn’t have to be full grown, but I would hope I could find a couple that are able to do substantial work once I am up to speed. My problem is I need stuff done yesterday, not in a couple years from now…

if that’s the case, you have two options:

1. buy adult trained oxen

2. train “adult” oxen

1. getting an already trained team would save you a lot of trouble, and especially if you want your work done “yesterday”. one of the “downsides” of getting an adult team is it takes getting used to them (and vice versa). but, if it’s doen on horses and mules, why not oxen? if you want to use them often and right from the start, you should have no problem betting used to them fairly quickly.

2. “adult oxen”. captions are here on purpose: they could be 3 years old, etc. not fully mature, but up to the task, unless your task includes hauling logs down from mountains on a daily basis. if you could source some diary or crosbred steers from some fattening program, you could start from there.
if so, you have two options:
1. classic training
2. driving with nasal control – faster and more “disobey proof” when starting with older cattle.

now, i believe you need “faster” oxen, and as such younger oxen (3-5 years) are better than older oxen, as they tend to get slower the older they get. also, aim for “faster” breeds: diary cattle like ayrshire can be a bit more fiery than beef breeds. steer clear of brown swiss, they’re slooooooow.

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Natalie, a good decision.

i know it’s a hard one to make, but i’m proud of you for making that call. *pat on back*
and you not being there doesn’t mean a thing. some things are unpleasant but are still necessary. good job for having the guts.

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