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CRTreeDude
ParticipantAfter a couple of years we can, but the first years we cannot because the cattle, etc will play with the trees and damage them.
After 2 years or so (depends on species) we can use horses, sheep and young cattle. So far, horses are the best, after that, sheep.
For the first couple of years, it is very manual. If we didn’t care about the shape of the tree when we finished, it would be different.
ParticipantThough John’s way of saying leaves something to be desired in my opinion, those who are idealistic about draft animals may want to take heed.
When someone says “You are ahead of the curve” I normally get worried. Being a little ahead can be good – too much can be painful. Sounds like John was too much.
As the old saying goes, “You know how you know who are the pioneers? – They are the ones with arrows in their backs!”
Early adopters bear the brunt of the learning curve. I just ordered almost 200 dollars worth of books (speaking of which – a recommened book section would be great) to help me on my way. One actually explains how to make a harness! Since there is no way for me to buy a harness down here, with step by step instructions, it will be easy since in our little town, there has to be at least 6 saddle makers (and anything else in leather)
Right now, using this technology may be marginal for many people – but if resources go the way it may well – the fundementals might change rapidly.
For me, draft horses makes sense – the horses are virtually free, the food is (and no haying required) and labor is cheap. I suspect I will save a lot of money. I find myself using horses to get between our farms as well as a mountain bike – not for lack of vehicles, but because the time difference just isn’t that much.
ParticipantHi, we are up in the Northern Zone. Our website is http://www.fincaleola.com
I will have to look up the Tropical Forest Initiative.
I will have to see if I can find some mowers and have them shipped down. I probably should start with one but I could easily see having 3 or 4 before long.
A sickle type would probably be really good – Might not be that hard to make either. They use sickles over in Guanacaste, perhaps one could be modified
ParticipantJohn, please don’t take this sarcastic but you a very obvious statement here – the first thing a small farm (or anything) has to do is make money. Was that a surprise? Even before the Industrial Revolution there was always a need for some cash crops to pay for some services, or at the very least, barter.
Selling knowledge is a cash crop of sorts – and if the farm is research, so much the better. Can someone actually make money with Draft Animals? Sure, depends on the kind of work and where they are.
Community is a key concept. The better the community, the more likely you can make it work. For example, let’s say you are a neighbor and have oxen (which is the case in our area) – I have some logs to extract from a place there is no way to get the tractor down into – So, I pay you to extract the logs for me. You get to charge me a premium price because without you, it is impossible.
You might be able to lay down a road with draft animals but I assume a neighbor with a bulldozer can do it a little faster. :rolleyes: But, the investment of a bulldozer is pretty steep – nice if you only need it occassionally.
Community lets us use efficiently our resources. I just purchased 4 books on draft animal power – now I could have spent years learning this the hard way, but why not pay someone else who took the time to write it? This is community.
But you do touch on an important truth. Don’t romantize too much draft animal power – there is a time and place unless you are a gentleman farmer of course.
ParticipantI am not sure it makes any sense, but it might so I will through it out there.
Using draft animal power is going to make the most sense when you using it in situation where it is a disadvantage to use something else. This is not to say that you won’t be able to use it elsewhere, just it may not be profitable.
The same thing is true for business. If you choose to use older technology, make sure it is to produce something that cannot be easily massed produced.
For example, we are going to use horses for hauling timber, these tend to be thinnings and so are not that big. Usually we will not thin more than 10% a year in each section – perhaps 20%. Our terrain for 8 months of the year is very soft. Usually here logging is only done for a short time of the year. Using horses we can harvest all year long – and hopefully for less costs.
What I am trying to say is look for areas to use draft animals where it is an advantage, not a disadvantage.
ParticipantCosta Ricans are very good at maintaining community. They don’t even have an Army anymore. They always work very hard at not offending anyone. Before they speak, they think “how will this be taken and what will people think of me afterward?”
In the USA, we tend to value “saying what we are thinking” but at times, what we think isn’t worth saying. :rolleyes:
Realize that though the Mexicans can live together – Gringos (I am one) can work together. There is a saying in Costa Rica, “In business, there are no friends.” I believe it. I find business less cooperative here, but people more friendly. Sometimes I wonder if they are just softening me up for the kill. :p
ParticipantYokes are normally made of wood that is reasonably light weight and not prone to shattering. Here in Costa Rica we use Mango.
I don’t know exactly the properties of mesquite, but it is possible the oils in it might be pretty irritating to the oxen.
You need a tough wood that is a little flexible (to take shocks) and reasonably lightweight.
Of course, that is for a Costa Rican yoke which is tied on to the horns – not sure what is done up there.
ParticipantCarl, I do believe you are absolutely right on this. Here in Costa Rica we have a lot of horses that aren’t purebred or anything. You watch them develop and decide their worth.
I am sure some horses for example are better than others for certain tasks, but in reality, most horses will do very well as long as they are trained for the task.
It is interesting to me how many fables about horses that there are that are put to rest when you live in a society that relies on them for transportation. When horses are not pets but work hard, they can be very smart animals – and you can have a bomb go off next to them and they don’t even flinch.
ParticipantWell, we got you beat – 365+ days growing season.
ParticipantI think simply a community is a group of people who act together for the common good. Lack of community is when you have a group of people who are all after #1.
ParticipantI just have to ask, do you have to be as stubborn as a Missouri Mule to handle one?
(I am originally from Missouri by the way. :p )
ParticipantI guess one advantage we have here is we have a 365 day growing season – smooths out the work for sure. (yeah, we are always busy!)
But it is true, when you finish a big job everything is really working well.
We are large enough (more than 20 workers) that we can have someone working the horses year-round. And with 500+ acres, we have more than enough work.
ParticipantI can assure you will not sound like philosopher! :p
Though I am a bit old (48) I find the emoticons very useful. Often it is hard for someone to realize another is joking – the emoticons help in that. Sure, you can use words to achieve the same, but not everyone is as adept with words.
But then again, having developed software for more than 25 years, I might be a bit more computer literate than the average person – and I assure you I am more comfortable with a computer than working with a horse!
ParticipantYour comments follows my reasoning. I think as a culture it is so easy to get into a quick fix and quick results where as it used to be thought that slow and steady wins the race.
In our own operation, I like to occassionally take a break and look around to see where we are compared to a year ago. Is the streams and rivers healthier? How is the animals and wildlife? How about the workers?
We have grown much over the last 5 years, but it has been gradual. The key is to not let go what you have accomplished and to enjoy the road, not the end result.
ParticipantI was just talking with my father about this very subject this morning. He was encouraging me to get some mules because he was saying in rough terrain they are better and can pull more per pound than horses.
I personally don’t have any experience regarding mules so I probably will add a couple just to see.
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