[dlskidmore]

That kind of thing would make a great 3 season house here, but I can’t imagine when we hit sub-zero weather that the insulation would cut it.

What kind of insulation do you use on a tent house? You have no studs to hold batting, blow-in, or spray foam, nothing to nail foam to…

On the other hand, our 100 year old non-insulated house is so expensive to heat that we keep it 52-58 F in here, we’re used to cold.

[dlskidmore]

@Carl Russell 20003 wrote:

we still buy in a lot of hay for feed. … part of our soil building activities.

Thanks for the input. I’m likely to end up going that route, at least in the beginning. I’ll do some experiments with stockpiled forage, but I’m not counting on them.

[dlskidmore]

@OldKat 20000 wrote:

Just curious Stable-Man; how would you see something like that coming about? (The redistribution of urban and suburban population to rural areas that is)

The only way I see it happening is complete unavailability of car fuel. If people can’t travel, or get goods brought to them, they will find better living in the country where they can create everything they need. But even in the animal powered days there were still some big cities and some goods traveling long distance overland.

[dlskidmore]

@bivol 19968 wrote:

why just don’t shift the surplus workforce back to the farming?

Complete lack of desire.

The other day the topic of my farming dreams came up at work. A co-worker commented “You’d give up all this?” All of what? Working for an organization that cares nothing for me? Constant interruptions and changes in priorities? Complete lack of exercise and Vitamin D? Inter-office Memos? But most of the people living that life don’t see it the same way. They can’t let go of the social atmosphere of the office, the reliable money in the regular paycheck, the complete lack of physical labor. They only go outside for sports and tanning, they have no concept of living with and working with nature.

Even to me, making this change feels like a huge risk, that I could go bust and have nothing but some home preserves to show for my investment. Most farmers have trouble paying near what the tech sector does to hire someone on with no risk tolerance.

[dlskidmore]

@Phil 19941 wrote:

To me, a real achilles heel is that not enough people are saving seeds to make a fairly quick shift to all local food production.

There are so many reasons to save seed! I’m just now getting into this. If you want to grow with the minimum of pesticides and fungicides, it really behooves you to start your own genetics experiment on your land. By crossbreeding a number of heritage varieties, you can develop a strain that is best suited to your soil conditions, with your local weather and pests. Heritage varieties are nice, and some of us need to work at preserving this diverse starting material, but local varieties are a better bet for the average farmer.

The overproduction of certain sterile strains has made us shy of the word hybrid, but it’s really natures best way of maintaining genetic diversity and allowing us to benefit from the best of every variety.

[dlskidmore]

Also, anyone who grows a significant portion of their own food is a prepper by default because we preserve a year’s worth of food every year. A plentiful supply for the family for a year can easily become short rations for a larger group. Even if the freezer goes out, you can dehydrate/smoke most of that and keep it on longer. If you save your own seed, your garden can go in pretty much the same next year, only a little later without the benefit of lights and heating pads to start seedlings.

I think it pays to think about such things, but I’m not spending extra money on fancy freeze dried or canned emergency rations, or on alternative energy sources that will eventually break down anyway.

[dlskidmore]

@mitchmaine 19929 wrote:

most farmers i now are independant and strong willed but not warriors. … how friendly would your neighbors be and for how long?

I think the ultimate survival plan should involve some friends who like to hunt, shoot, or participate in martial arts. They know where you are, know where to come when things go badly, and will be part of your team. No-one can manage alone in anarchy, there must be coalitions and mutual protection agreements. Even the thugs need the farmers they steal from, and if things progress far enough will organize to claim territory with farmers in it, and defend it against other thugs just like the first “nobles” did. May as well have your own team of friendly thugs that understand they need to pick up a hoe in between incidents that require guns and fists.

I do more to prepare mentally than physically for things going badly, but it is a factor in my deciding to step out of the tech world into the agrarian one.

[dlskidmore]

@bivol 19888 wrote:

IMO it is better to have a substantial population living in the countryside.

I agree, but there is still a limitation on growth in that sector as well. After you break big agriculture back down into little family farms that are just a step above self-sufficiency (make enough extra to pay taxes and have a few nice things) you will still run out of land if the population continues to grow.

The really sad part is, that you can’t limit population growth and remain a viable culture, as the other cultures out-breed you and replace you. This is a no-win for a peaceful society that’s trying to become sustainable with a neighbor that is not. But if neither neighbor is sustainable, that’s also a problem in that neither can spread it’s excess population to the less populated country, and there will be either war, disease, or famine to decrease the population and restore balance as nature always does (or in the last such cycle end the world.) Even if you convince your neighbor to be sustainable and you overpopulate into their territory, you will only prolong the inevitable.

Bah. I’m just being depressing now. We can only do the work that’s in front of us, that God gave each of us to do, and contribute our small parts. The big picture thinking gets overwhelming and gets in the way of providing the world what love and hope we can.

[dlskidmore]

Well, yes, we can always grow spiritually, personal development, in technology in productivity, but there is a limit to population and city sprawl size.

[dlskidmore]

I am the wife: anything really nasty gets washed two or three times before drying. Washing machines are not designed to handle that level of filth, but repeating the wash several times produces a satisfactory result and doesn’t leave loose dirt in the washer to get on the next batch of normal laundry.

For really ground in oils, put in double the amount of soap in the first wash, and leave the lid open to allow everything to soak overnight before completing the first wash. For the last wash, use no soap to get that extra soap out.

Still, a washer in the barn is a wonderful idea, as you don’t have to drag that stuff through the house first.

[dlskidmore]

@bivol 19820 wrote:

2. the european moaldboard plow was developed for plowing moist heavy grasslands, basically to plow under the grasses which always kept returning when an ard was used. chinese dealt with weeds by flooding the fields, while we needed a big tool to dig them under.
so, eu. moldboard was a large heavy tool that needed far more than even a single team to pull.

So are you saying this method is not practical in typical European/American soil? Or is there a plow that can turn a smaller amount of heavy soil at a time and stay light enough for a single ox?

[dlskidmore]

The original thread also seems to be missing the pictures.

[dlskidmore]

Unfortunately we’ll be looking in a very small radius around hubby’s existing career… Looks lovely!

[dlskidmore]

This is mainly about pine forest silvopasture, but a decent set of material to look through: http://www.silvopasture.org/

[dlskidmore]

@bivol 19769 wrote:

great idea!

i researched silvopasture a bit, and like it very much, here are some addresses:

http://www.forestry.ky.gov/programs/stewardship/Agroforestry.htm

Minnesota

http://www.unl.edu/nac/silvopasture.htm

and grazing cattle in mixed tree and grassland is the closes to where cattle originally lived, auerochs originally lived in such conditions at the edges of forests and mixed forest grassland.

Very useful links! Thanks!

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