[dominiquer60]

Jason if you are interested in reading more links about this topic, a thread on this was started in Feb., you may have missed it. http://www.draftanimalpower.com/showthread.php?t=1197

[dominiquer60]

You guys definitely have some thoughts in the right direction, I can’t begin to brainstorm like that. My thoughts have been into production poultry hybrids that are easy to produce in the barnyard, not hybrid energy production. Thanks for the kind words Geoff, but everything in quotes was directly cut and pasted from Wikipedia. My vocabulary is very Lamarckian, use it or loose it, and I am afraid that I lost “syncopated” in college a while back. Now that I have rediscovered it, I will have to fit it in once in a while, I’ll work on it because you are right, it is a good one. :rolleyes::)

[dominiquer60]

I believe that with show hitches you always want the shortest team in the lead, the largest team on the wagon and in each pair the larger horse on the off side, and from what I remember this was mostly about creating the optical illusion of uniformity amongst the hitch. I am sure that there has got to be a better way to decide when dealing with real draft horses that do actual work.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

Donn,

If you, or anyone else, ever catch yourself in the vicinity of Gallupville, NY (6.2 miles off of I-81 exit 23) it is worth a short detour to check it out. It is a lovely little rural community along the Foxenkill Creek. There is an old general store in the center of town that stood vacant for a while until about 4 years ago. Joy runs the store now and her kids are often there helping and home schooling at the family business. It is not exactly what you describe in your proposal, but it is proof that a small rural community can embrace a small business and vital part of the local economy.

Joy has a small dairy case with local farm bottled milk, local Amish butter, local cheeses, eggs from literally a stones throw across the brook, and some healthful and convenient odds and ends. In the back is a small deli case with a few select quality lunch staples including freshly made salads. She has a full kitchen in the way back and makes soup and a special daily, some nights you can order complete dinners to go. The main part of the store contains dry good that she purchases in bulk and sells pre-bagged, pasta, flours, dried fruit and veggies, sweets, nuts, some organic, some not, etc. She also stocks a small quantity of first aid/drugs, fishing tackle, snacks and other general store type items. There are a couple cafe tables in the front by the window and there is always a fresh pot of coffee available. Her prices are very reasonable for being off the beaten path and I find some of them competitive to the supermarkets.

The locals know that in order to have such a wonderful option to driving 10 miles into Cobleskill for food, they need to support Joy’s store and accept the slightly higher prices over traveling a greater time and distance. I talked to her last week during my visit home and she said that January was a little tough, but everyday folks commented on how important her store was and that they were thankful for her efforts. This encouragement kept her going and now sales are picking up again, and she is doing a little better every week.

So if a town just large enough to have it’s own zip code can support a friendly healthy general store I think that Cortland certainly has the potential to support your idea. I think that you should find a way to celebrate its uniqueness of not being a customer Co-op and really get people to embrace the farmers and seasonalness of your store. I have seen a bumper sticker out there “I buy local, how about you?” and you could add the word “seasonal” in there and have a heck of an idea to advertise.

I am excited for you and Cortland.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

I can’t give advice on collars but two other things to consider are chiropractic and muscle work, you can do some of the latter yourself. I know with my own back, when I get stiff and sore it takes a good amount of muscle work to loosen the muscle fibers and release some of the built up toxins before I begin to feel better. You can also do a search for stretches that you can have your horse work on using a carrot, here is an example http://www.todayshorse.com/Articles/HorseCarrotPractics.htm. These alternative therapies may help in conjunction with a different collar, and the muscle work can be done with a library book on equine massage and a bag of carrots, so it won’t break the bank trying. Hope this helps a little, I am awaiting to read what the more experienced have to say about the collar.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

Bret,
I don’t want to get too off topic, here is Wikipedia’s quick answer to your question, but I am sure Geoff can explain it better.

“Natural rapeseed oil contains 50% erucic acid, which is mildly toxic to humans[citation needed] in large doses but is used as a food additive in smaller doses. Wild type seeds also contain high levels of glucosinolates (mustard oil glucosindes), chemical compounds that significantly lowered the nutritional value of rape seed press cakes for animal feed. Canola, originally a syncopated form of the abbreviation “Can.O., L-A.” (Canadian Oilseed, Low-Acid) that was used by the Manitoba government to label the seed during its experimental stages, is now a trade name for ‘double low’ (low erucic acid and low glucosinolate) rapeseed. Sometimes the “Canola-quality” sticky note [what does this mean?] is applied to other varieties as well[3].”

Erika

[dominiquer60]

Yes humble1 crossed the line, nothing against Neil, he had some great things to offer and bringing the post back to “horse people,” Neil is definitely a horse person with a very impressive operation that shows just what can be accomplished with horse power today.

[dominiquer60]

The best draft ponies that I ever worked with were some grades in central NY. They bred them to look like Clyde ponies and often they had breeding stock that didn’t make the grade but would produce the right color. One I remember had no white and looked like a 13 hand bay Percheron she was some wild cross (welsh, shetland, arab, clyde) and was a great little mare, solid, stout, good feet, good attitude. If I wanted to limit myself to a single small animal, I would take one of her any day. There are some great non-purebred animals out there to consider. Personally if I could make my own draft pony I wonder what a stout Welsh mountain pony crossed with a Suffolk would be like.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

“Failure is the tuition you pay for success.”

I don’t often save fortunes from the Chinese restaurant but I liked this one, it goes along with this theme.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

Thanks for the opportunity Carl! I have a few years worth, a harnessed rooster must have been before my time reading SFJ:)

Erika

[dominiquer60]

Rick, Have you read any of the Biological Woodsmen’s links on some of his posts. He talks a lot about marketing local forest products and selling the idea of forest management to land owners. There may be some good reading if you have not already. Where there is a will there is a way.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

Y 4 Ranch- I am not a fan of guns, but I certainly believe that well educated gun owners (the type that have gone through the hops, courses and carry permits) should not be punished for the actions of the illegitimate gun owner type that live in the alley behind me. In the end guns don’t kill people, people kill people. I think people should be regulated, not guns:)

[dominiquer60]

Perhaps the National has been for it but individual states like NY are against NAIS. The following is a message a friend sent, I can’t make it, I am flying back to FL in the morning, but if any of you can make it this is a good person to talk to, she has been published in the Small Farmers Journal a few times.
Hi All,
I know many of you don’t have animals, but I know you all are concerned with our food systems, so I’m passing along this info. NAIS is an active issue. This is not going away, and is a very real concern for everyone concerned with farming.
Mary Zanoni, Ph.D., past employee of Cornell, and Exec. Dir. of Farm for Life, has been an outspoken critic of NAIS and an activist for farmers. She is speaking this Friday 3/6, at the Real Food Market on Rt.203 across from the Chatham Fair Grounds. The times are 12:30 for farmers and 7:00pm for consumers.
Her website is: http://www.citizensforaconstitutionalrepublic.com/zanoni.
Please pass this along to anyone that you think would be interested.
This is in Chatham, NY.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

Donn,

I think that this is a good idea. It is hard to say with the economy, but I have a feeling that if we(all small farmers) don’t run with the local food movement now it will be hard to keep the momentum going if/when things get worse.

Your idea reminds me of an art gallery in Salem, NY. It is an artist/craftperson co-op, like your farmer coop idea. The artists charge them selves a consignment fee to cover the cost of rent/lights/heat and they take turns playing shop keeper. Often someone will bring a little something to work on and they hold get to know the artist type events.

I like your idea of it being a farmer co-op, not a customer co-op. Like in a CSA the customers have to realize that this is not a “meet all your needs grocery, ” but rather a market place for seasonal local products in a central location with better hours than a farmers’ market. Products will vary with the season and each week could bring something new and different to replace that which has past.

The volunteers will be rather critical. They need to have a basic knowledge of the products that they are selling, be engaging and have some good salesmanship. I have experienced varied help at farmers’ markets and there is nothing worse than the person that sits and hides from the customers only to say “I don’t know” when someone finally gets their attention. This type is never asked to help again. We have a couple stellar market helpers that also help with the harvest so they have good knowledge of the product. They are also the type of people that you wish you could bottle their happiness and positive energy and sell it, their good attitudes are contagious and sales are always good on days that they help.

I have a couple other thoughts, but they will have to wait, got to catch a plane to NY

happy road less taken,

Erika

[dominiquer60]

“Also, w/o benefit of a round pen or other smaller corral, how would you train your horses to stand untied for harnessing? I always have to tie mine to harness but want to get to having them stand untied to harness.
I’d like to hear thoughts on this.”

Geoff,
I am not a horse trainer, however I work with horses on a daily basis 7 months of the year. The one thing that each of these horses must do while I work on them is to stand still while I do my job (I braid fancy elite show horses). It is not my job to train any of them, however I have to get the squirrely ones to stand somehow so I will often take the time to try to develop a brief but positive relationship with them.

I always use their halter and a lead rope as a tool, usually I braid them in their stalls, but sometimes cross ties or ground tied. With a strange horse I will introduce myself (they sniff, I pat), halter them and find a good spot to stand them (usually with their near shoulder to the wall, manes are always braided on the off side). Once they are parked I just expect them to stand, these are not completely green horses otherwise they wouldn’t be at a show. If they try to move from their parking place I gently put them back where I need them, if they think about moving again I give them a whoa and put a hand to steady them. Sometimes they will persist for a while and I just keep re-enforcing where I need them to stand, eventually they get the picture, relax and snooze the rest of the event away.

Of course they are not all this easy. If they really have no sense of whoa or keep invading my space I will take the next step and use the box stall as a mini round pen. Holding the lead rope, I will ask the horse to walk around me in a very tiny space that is normally their private space. After just a couple laps I ask with voice an body for the horse to whoa, they usually do and I repeat a couple more times establishing that I am leader. If they want to stop I keep them moving until I decide it’s time to stop. It really doesn’t take more than a minute or two until they are good at it so I put them back in park with a firm whoa. Most horses at this point are happy to stand in park and may need a little reminder if they get a shifty with their weight.

Many of the veteran horses that I work with are used to standing still for long periods of time and will gladly ground time most anywhere. In this case I don’t actually drop the lead rope to the ground, I hold it between my knees while I work away. Again I just expect them to stay, if they act like they want to move I try to catch them before they do. If there is something distracting them, I don’t make a big deal about it, I catch their attention and remind them to whoa.

My favorite horse to work on is the one that I see the most often, and have known the longest. I enter his stall, he says hello and positions his self and I go to work, no halter no lead rope, just the slightest of touches with a finger tip to put his head at an ideal working height. I know when this horse is sore, upset, or happy just by the way that he stands. I tell the groom if he is going to treat his rider right that day or not and I am correct most of the time.

When I showed horses we trained our horses to ground tie for trail classes (often a required test) and for grooming and tacking/untacking. We worked a little with them every time we had to handle them. We would place them in the barn isle where the grooming area was, looped the lead through the halter just to keep it off the ground, if they moved we put them back. Once they get good at that, we would give a reminder whoa and go in the tack room for our saddles and such. It just became part of their routine. It came in handy at shows when the wash rack became muddy or was full. They would stand anywhere for a full bath, it was expected of them and it was the norm for them to just park it until further notice.

I suspect if you begin to make standing untied part of your animals routine they will make it part of theirs too. Try starting by grooming them untied (hold the end of lead for a while first), then build on that. When they take the initiative to move, or better yet think about moving, gently remind them what they were told to do, nothing. I hope that practicing this may carry over into your working them in harness.

Sorry to ramble so, I guess I killed the time I had to to get to work early. I hope my limited experience helped a little.

Erika

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