[dominiquer60]

Geoff I think that I remember that “Connections” or something similar, footage of a vintage bedroom with and extensive series of chambers that air was blown through to expand and compress and eventually ended cooler than when it started. If it is the same I am thinking of that is certainly a good series, if not it sounds like something that I wish I had time to watch.

Vicki I am thankful for my computer, It keeps me connected to a really great group of people, especially during these winter months when I am off the farm and out of my elements. I could be happy to have never owned a computer also, I would probably have a stronger local group of friends with more varied interests. I am happy with what I have now, and know I could be happy without many of the modern material things that I possess currently. (It would be hard to give up floating row covers and the season extension that they can provide)

The Good Life at what ever scale that makes us feel emotionally fulfilled is something that I wish more people would pursue. If more people found an occupation that they enjoyed and took pride in I think that maybe a very positive step for our society. Learning to live within our means and enjoying what we have instead of longing for what we have not seems to have gone out of fashion. I am not saying that we shouldn’t follow our dreams or advance ourselves, we should be happy with what we can do and not get too carried away with what we can’t do.

Comfort is in the eye of the beholder. I could have been a kept woman in a fancy suburban home, had enough money to cover all my needs and some wants, and travel the world once a year. Some standards call this comfortable, I called it awkward and uncomfortable, so I declined. I take great comfort in taking care of some of my needs, and having a little money to buy what I cannot create on my own. My friend in the suburbs is now envious of what I have created for myself. I told him that he could do similar, but of course he can only answer with “yes, but….,” too bad for him and his “I’m trapped in society” mentality, he could be more comfortable too, if he would just choose to do so.

[dominiquer60]

I know some of the “big guys” in my area, they are real people too, in it for generations, it is their way of life. Most dairies in the NE are not businesses that people start, they are usually something that get handed down and continued by the next generation. I am sure that they are all business minded, they have to be, some are certainly more industrial than others. I am sure that every one of them is loosing money everyday at less than $11/CWD. So many of them send their kids off to places like Cornell that preach, get big or get out, I mean drill it into their heads and test them on this theory. They come home and “save the family farm” by listening to what the big mouths with their corporately sponsored research have to say. It is all about how much labor, acreage, debt a farm has per cow, and those numbers are less the more cows you milk. They teach you that you are not an efficient farmer unless you use BST, silage preservatives, and keep your parlor running around the clock.

It is a sad state of affairs for the people here that care about their land and their cows, and maybe they don’t follow the same practices that many of us subscribe to. They could be more “green” and think outside the box instead of being lead into debt like sheep to slaughter, but despite that I hate to see any of them go under, they are vital to the rural way of life and agricultural infrastructure. I have been in the belly of the land grant, and I used to be an AI technician, I knew many of my dairy neighbors, it just hurts every time I see an ad for an auction or an empty barnyard. What makes it worse is when the land is lost to industry or houses. I am not too ashamed to admit to pulling over and crying at the sight of an 1800’s barn being bulldozed and burnt. I wish that there was more that I could do to help besides writing to representatives and buying local when possible.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

Geoff, I have seen something like what you describe with pipes in a pile. There is a septic company near where I used to live, every fall they would set up a pipe or a series of pipes that lead directly to their shop. Then they collect as much horse manure and discarded bedding as they can find, they pile it up good and high and just let it sit all winter. They insulate the pipe leading to their shop and enjoy heat that only cost them the hauling of manure. In the spring they turn it a couple times and get the pipes out, then sell it to a farmer as compost. It seems to be a reasonable system, maybe that is not happening in the system that you described, but your post reminded me of this shop heating setup.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

Hal, I am fairly new to this group of horsemen, but I have met quite a few of them face to face and I can’t think of a nicer group of people to associate with. We have a lot in common, even the ones that I don’t agree with 100% of the time, come to think of it that is everyone, can you imagine how dull life would be if we all had the same ideas.:D

Erika

[dominiquer60]

I’ve noticed that it is often the elder/quieter/lamer teamsters that do well at the pulls that I have been to. The older farmer gentlemen type that have actually trained their animals with real work, respect and care, and can’t afford health wise to have some hot headed fearful team drag them across the arena, the woodlot or the farm. This is the type of person that expects just as much if not more from their own body than their animals (proportionally of course). Just give a look at his hands or face, they tell the story of his life, then look at his proud calm team as they walk off with the heaviest load of the night, with only the quietest of commands uttered and a light hand. A good teamster with a good pair practicing what they do best is a thing of beauty, whether it be in the arena, the woodlot or the field.

I have seen show horses that work, work horses that show, work horses that pull, and pulling horses that work, but I have never noticed a show horse that pulled or a pulling horse that showed.

Near Horse I agree with you 100% about the collectors disease thing, there are too many of those farms around home, seems like on TV there is one getting shut down every other week. There are certainly some good honest rescue organizations, but it burns me when the 20 overcrowded horses on a barren lot type start begging for money, it seems like the louder they beg the sooner you seen them on TV.

[dominiquer60]

A covered structure also helps prevent any weather from effecting the pile, could be a benefit, but a bad thing if you have little rain and want the pile moistened naturally. Chickens can also have some effect on a pile, it is nice to see them stirring a pile, but their impact is generally superficial. If I recall correctly the Nordell’s use chickens on compost when the pigs are working a different pile, they even have a catwalk over the pig pen to avoid the pigs snacking on hens.

We have had our chickens in loose on a winter bedding pack with the pigs with no visible problems. I think the two can co-exist in the same area in the right conditions, for us it was that the hens could duck under the hot wire to get away, and the pigs had some acreage to rut around, as long as they don’t get a taste of chicken they don’t seem to seek it out. They can both be good for stirring compost as long as the system is set up to take advantage of their natural tendencies to scratch and rut.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

Thanks everyone for the advice, it is wonderful to have a place like DAP where we can get so many opinions. When the time comes I will probably purchase colored calves of some sort from a private party that is reputable and has given colostrum, if time and money permit. Otherwise I know if I give a neighbor or two the heads up they will save me a nice pair of Holsteins that were started on colostrum. If I have to vaccinate, I will most likely follow the program on the farm. My boyfriend would love the excuse of a pair of bull calves to have a milk cow again for himself, and a couple of neighbors may buy into that thought also, for bath or pet consumption only of course. 😉

Thanks Again,
Erika

[dominiquer60]

Geoff- I used to work on a sheep farm and we used net fencing all year round. The trick in the winter is that we used a cordless drill to make a pilot hole in the ice and/or frozen ground, it worked well until we wanted to move the fence, then it just took some finesse or a bucket of hot water to get the little stakes out. We liked to keep our net fairly tight and round the corners like Robert mentioned. I don’t know if using a cordless drill in your hard ground would work, but it is something to consider if you ever wanted to try net fence again.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

Robert, I don’t know much about electricity either, but I used to live and work on a piece of ground that resembled a sand dune at times, Oakville fine sandy loam. We once had to irrigate in March just to get the peas to germinate. since I had to water the stock anyway, I would try to make the habit of watering the 6 foot ground rod as well, it seemed to work. I really like net fencing as well, I may take you up on the used roll offer. I had a neighbor that used net for everything, perimeter, cross fencing, sheep, goats, geese, cows, calves, bulls and a team of Belgians. I do think that a little of it had to do with his good luck and not his good management. We use poultry net for the hens, it take some training to get them to stay in, but once they are trained we don’t bother with the electric, they go in at night and the only day time predator is the hawk, no amount of fence juice is keeping her out.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

In Eastern and Central New York these two publications come to mind first, they also have free online classifieds, so you need not subscribe, if you like to follow auctions I would recommend subscribing to Country Folks.

Want ad Digest http://www.wantaddigest.com/view/wadhome.asp

Country Folks http://www.leepub.com/classified%20files/samplewebpage/

Country Folks is also a great place to shop for farms and land if you are looking for a some ground.
Erika

[dominiquer60]

Andy, In general, if the compost is cool and broken down into an earthy substance and you can’t identify what is used to be, spread away.

Robert, I wouldn’t want to kill calves and compost them either. I would really try to think of better things to do with them, however if I did handle them in this manner it would be the best solution that day given my time, energy and bigger priorities. Your idea is very generous, however newborn calves have very, very little food value to humans, they really need to be raised as veal calves to be useful to a food pantry, and I don’t see many having the time or money to take on a veal calf project. I know in our area there is a family that owns the largest feed lot in NY, they will often buy veal calves and pick them up, again they need have a few months of milk put into them and preferably weened already. It can take a good deal of effort to raise veal calves, or not it varies from farm to farm depending on the situation and amount of labor and space. If I was a kept woman and had a lot of free time on my hands I would collect calves and train them up and or start a 4-H club or something. I don’t ever plan on being a kept woman, but I can dream of starting a 4-H club anyway. I can easily see a stressed out farmer deciding to take responsibility for his bull calves by making sure that they don’t suffer long and cost him a bill to get rid of them.

[dominiquer60]

That’s all fine, but in the end individual farmers are going to do what they think is best for their situation. Maybe that guy would like to try raising them as veal calves, but he doesn’t have the money for even a low input facility. Until you are in that mans shoes it is hard to criticize him fairly. There is more than one way to do anything and it is up to each individual farmer to do what is best for themselves.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

High tensile can be dangerous for horses. In the northeast we have a lot of hedge rows, large visual barriers that very often contain one or more of the following: buckthorne, multifloral rose, thorny locust, thornapples, etc. Some folks I know don’t even have a real fence on some of these types of hedge rows, the large animals have no interest of wading through the thorny jungle. Small animals on the other hand would like to live in the thicket for ever. These hedge rows can be enough to keep horses in, so a hot fence can be icing on the cake in these cases. It is all about what works for the individual. Garlic is listed as poisonous to horses and dogs, yet some people feed it to them every day for pest/parasite control, it works for some and not for others. That is the great thing about farming and animal care, there are so many ways to make it work.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

At least Howie’s neighbor is getting money for his milk, that is why it is not going down the drain. From a strictly financial and nutrient accounting point of view his neighbor is loosing both money and nutrients with every bull calf that he gets a bill for because he sent it to the sale. It is worth more to the farmer to keep the calf and use him to feed his crops than to get a bill for him. You can argue that the farmer is also loosing money on his milk, but at least he is still recovering some of his costs of producing the milk. Having to pay $7 a calf to get rid of them and loose the nutrients is as useful as banging your head against the wall.

[dominiquer60]

Good job Jen, it can be hard to think about, but we are all perishable. I heard a great quote this summer, I wish that I remember who said it, “Plan on living for a hundred years but be prepared to die any minute.” So it is good to imagine the animals living to their fullest, but keep the pile hot just in case the unforeseen happens. I guess the same goes for anyone, my mother doesn’t want to die anytime soon, but my name is on her bank account and her will is up to date, because you just never know. I can’t think of a better way to honor the dead than composting, completing the nutrient cycle is a very powerful and nontoxic way of returning the dead to the earth. Near horse correct about burying, without oxygen decomposition takes much longer. Without enough carbon material the nutrients are leached into the ground in potentially harmful/wasteful concentrations, the carbon material helps capture the nitrogen and makes for a mellower finished product that is safe to use.

Erika

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