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- October 16, 2009 at 8:41 pm in reply to: Back Straps And Belly Bands Are Not For Pulling Or Pushing. #54551greyParticipant
There is no substitue for a properly-fitting collar and hames. However. It is still possible for a properly-fitting collar and hames to be mis-aligned on the horse’s shoulder when the point of hitch is raised up high either because of terrain or because you are using a longer rope-and-pulley type of evening hitch. I have tried to find a photo that will illustrate this but haven’t found one yet (if anyone has one to post, it would be helpful). I know that I’ve seen a couple on this site in the last month or so, but I can’t remember where.
When the belly band is doing its job in the aforementioned situation, you will see the tugs bend at the belly band. Or, in the case of a sidebacker harness, you will see the short section of tug between the hames and the big side ring will be roughly 90 degrees to the angle of shoulder (and, by extension, the hames which lay parallel with the shoulder). The tugs that extend from the big side ring back to the evener will be at a different angle… sometimes even so drastically that the tug will be parallel with the *ground*. Yet, due to the action of the belly band, the collar still lies efficiently on the length of the shoulder and doesn’t try to rock forward.
October 16, 2009 at 7:31 am in reply to: Back Straps And Belly Bands Are Not For Pulling Or Pushing. #54550greyParticipantNah, I take it back. They aren’t outmatched. By the end of the first pull they still had more to give but they threw in the towel. After that, they were just out of synch and didn’t put their hearts into it.
A bit of weight on a horse’s back gives him better traction.
The traditional harnesses those horses were wearing were neat, but I don’t recommend leaving your belly band loose like that.
All the parts of the harness are there for a reason, and none of them should be loose.
October 15, 2009 at 6:38 pm in reply to: Back Straps And Belly Bands Are Not For Pulling Or Pushing. #54549greyParticipantThe belly band is used to keep the collar and hames laying properly on the shoulder. In some situations (such as with a longer rope-and-pulley style hitch, or when crossing a ditch) the end of the horse’s traces get raised up high. If your belly band isn’t tight enough, raising the end of the traces causes the top of the collar to tip forward and the bottom of the collar to dig in. This gets the collar off the shoulder and also presses the bottom of the collar against the horse’s windpipe.
Keeping your belly band snug maintains that ideal 90 degree angle between the lay of the shoulder and the traces.
Keeping your belly band snug also prevents getting a hoof caught in it when they are kicking at their belly during bug season. It shouldn’t be cinched up tight like a western saddle on a bronc, but it should be snug, not hanging loose.
Edited to add: I just watched the video that was mentioned. 1.) The belly band should never be that loose 2.) It’s a terrible idea to stand in FRONT of horses, pulling on their bridles while they are trying their darnedest to pull a heavy load. If something were to give (and it happens), that guy would be flattened in about half a second. The horses are overmatched against their load. Why does the driver keep trying? He is just going to demoralize the horses. Not the best pulling video I’ve ever seen. Beautiful horses, though.
greyParticipantMaybe next time drag a big tire behind the untongued plow during transport. Like a sea anchor.
I know how it gets when you’ve got an “agenda” though. More often than not, it gets me into trouble. Agendas and assumptions. Take some part of that wrecked plow and hang it on the wall of the barn as a reminder. I’ve got a few humbling “trophies” hanging on my barn wall next to where I hang the harnesses. Helps keep my brain in gear.
greyParticipantFor the individual punches, I just get whatever’s cheap. Honestly, my first set was about $10 from Harbor Freight. Nice big set of about a dozen different sized punches. They have held up well. I use them pretty often. I have only ever felt the need to sharpen one of them, once – it is the size that is needed for almost all the conway buckles on my harness. I used a long thin round ceramic file – the same one I use when sharpening my hoof knives.
greyParticipantA good plow team makes you smile at the end of each furrow. You done been bit by the bug! Congratulations! After you’ve got this down pat, try it with a single next. Similar, but different. Equally satisfying!
greyParticipantIn my travel repair kit that I throw into the wagon toolbox or take on the wagon train, I carry the punch kit that has one handle with interchangeable tips. Little fiddly bits that you can lose, but packs down small. Shown here:
http://eleathersupply.com/punches.shtml and scroll down or search for “Mini Punch Set Stock #300300” and “Maxi Punch Set Stock #300400”. I have both sets but the “maxi” set has the sizes you’d want for harnesses. The points for the mini set fit the mini handle, and the points for the maxi set require the maxi handle. They aren’t interchangeable. I made a little tube out of copper pipe, capped one end and put a cork in the other end. I store my points in the tube so they don’t get lost. I think the punch kit I got was made by Tandy. Pretty sure I didn’t pay as much as they are asking on the website. They sell them at Tandy Leather, of course, and also at some craft stores that have a leathercraft department. I’ve seen them at some tack shops too.At home, on my work bench, I have a set of individual punches. Same page as above, but look for “Round Hole Drive Punches”.
The rotary punches to stay away from are the “Deluxe Rotary Punch Stock #324000” with the red handles – the one commonly sold in tack shops – (I actually bent one trying to punch a hole in a quarter strap) and the “Economy Rotary Punch” just above it. If you were punching holes in lightweight garment leather, I’m sure they’d do okay. But good harness leather… you might as well gnaw your way through it with your own teeth.
greyParticipantAh! Excellent! There are a lot of good photos on that site, including one of a fine large goat in harness, with a neck collar, hitched to a plow. The size of the moldboard on the plow makes me wonder if maybe the share is too large to actually do any plowing with that goat… maybe it’s just for demonstration purposes.
But several photos of goats with neck collars! Thank you!
greyParticipantOne good reason to use a round hole punch rather than drilling the hole, is that a smooth edged hole is less likely to develop a tear than a rough-edged hole made by a drill bit.
The rotary hole punch with the pliers type handle often doesn’t do the job on heavy harness leather, unless you have huge strong hands… but if you have the hand strength to work one, this tool has the advantage of being useable while the harness is still in place on the animal. Just for the love of Mike, don’t get the red rubber-coated handle $10 rotary hole punch. You’ll just get frustrated! Get the steel handled $30 unit.
The set of individual punches that I use, requires that I remove the tack from the animal. Also, more parts to carry around with you in your repair kit. The rotary tool travels better.
Remember to use a wedge of nylon, rubber or leather backing behind your strap when you are using the strike punches. Your tool will stay sharper and last longer. If you don’t use a backing, you’ll dull or chip your punches. Using a mallet rather than a hammer is a good idea too. A hammer will mushroom the head of your strike punches in a surprisingly short amount of time.
greyParticipantIf all the connecting apparatus between the collar and the load (traces, evener, chains, ect.) are not taut, I use the command “line out” to have the horses lean/edge up until things are taut. I brought it with me from dog mushing. I use it with the longe line, too, when the horse starts cutting corners and makes the line too slack. I like it because it doesn’t resemble any of the other commands I use.
For a single step, I use the command, “step”. I can push the “step” button as many times as it takes to get the horses where I need them. But if you start pushing it too many times, too close together, it loses meaning and they might give you more than one step when you are only asking for one. So if I need them to go more than three or four steps, I tell them to walk, and then stop them when they get to where they need to be. If I need them to take two or three steps, I ask for “step” and then wait. Then ask for another step, then wait. I try not to run them together. Seems to help keep them clear on the concept.
greyParticipantThat doesn’t work when there is no pole, though, right Carl? That’s only when hitched to loads with a pole? Only somewhat familiar with the D-ring harness…
greyParticipantNo, sorry, my mistake – checked my notes and they went for $300 this year. $600 last year at Sisters. I think I blocked out the $300 price tag this year because I could actually almost afford it this time but had to pass them up anyway.
greyParticipantI’ve yet to see one go for less than $500 around here. And they weren’t even the nice articulated ones.
greyParticipantI’d love to have a harrow cart but it’s looking like I’ll have to build one if I’m to have one. For what they go for at the auction, you’d think they were made of solid gold.
greyParticipantGood to know, Donn, thank you. It seems to roll okay. I am looking forward to dragging the pasture while resting on my laurels, instead of marching around behind the harrow.
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