[J-L]

I have to revise my last comment. I now have a lame mule. I’d sold her a three years ago as part of a team. The man I sold her to brought her back after her team mate died and basically gave her to me. I noticed how long her feet were, but she made it to the barn without showing a big limp, but the next day you could see it.
I trimmed her feet that day and took 2 full bites with my nippers, plus part of another one, just to get her remotely close to balanced. Been working on her since. I’m certain she stood around in his corral for 3 years and hadn’t been trimmed. She’s still gimpy now, but I thinks she’s pulling out of it. Never saw an equine with feet that long in my life.
She’s a nice mule and I hope she’ll pull out of it. I can use her this winter feeding cattle at the father in laws place.

[J-L]

The most common use for mules where I live is under a pack saddle. I’ve seen more sr. citizen mules than horses still going on long trips. I know of more than a few in their mid 30’s still going strong, and one at 40 who is ‘semi retired’. It seems a more common occurence with mules than horses, but I don’t know by how much.

[J-L]

My horses live with the cattle off and on all year. No problem. I did have one mule that was getting too rough on the calves at calving so I sent him down the road and he’s now in a pack string in the Wind River’s. Other than that, no problem.
It’s interesting to see what different feed they utilize. When the horses have a pasture used up, I can put cows in and they get whatever is left and love it. The reverse is also true.

[J-L]

I have both nylon and leather harness. I’d have to say I do like the leather better, but that might change as I get older because of the nylons light weight.
I also have a set of beta lines and like them close to as well as leather. My old heavy leather lines are nice in this Wyoming wind. I did try nylon lines that came with the nylon harness and really hate them.
My harness preference is the ‘yankee’ brichen style. I have one set of these and two sets of ‘box’ brichen harness. If I had my druthers I’d go with the yankee brichen where I have to back a lot and come down some fairly steep grades. It tends to put weight on the hind legs vs wanting to sweep them out from under your team when you’ve got a load on coming down a grade.
I’ve never used the ‘D’ ring style so can’t comment on it. It seems to work well for a lot of folks in the north east though.

[J-L]

In this altitude our grass hay is pretty good feed. My teams get grass hay free choice and if they’re working down a little I’ll throw them some oats. UNLESS its mules. They work well on about half what my draft horses use and I normally cut out the oats (just enough to catch them). If it gets lower than -30 I may give a little alfalfa and I may weaken and give the mules a shot of grain.

[J-L]

My philosophy on lightness was taught to me by some good horsemen with lots of experience. It all boils down to this: being light means being only as hard as you have to be, and not much harder.
It’s the same with saddle horses as it is with driving horses. You put as much effort into whatever bit you’re using as it takes to get the response you want.
I’ve watched a lot of horse loggers working on video and see them have to rear back and ask hard to get horses shut down. The same team may drive easier when their adrenaline is down. It’s not really a matter of using light touch all the time.
To me, barn sour horses aren’t really about being light. I do think that’s another issue.

[J-L]

I don’t lope my teams around the ranch much either. I think you can get them used to it though. My last team of perch’s didn’t mind it when I’d break them into a lope with the bobsled chasing the moose out of the stackyards or hustling to beat the cattle to an open gate. BUT they were a good broke team and had done it enough to realize that sled wasn’t chasing them anywhere. I would not chase moose anywhere with my mules (sometimes they chase back). They don’t tolerate much cowboying. I really think it depends on the animals.

Like Andrew said, you build up to speed or really anything new. Prepare for it and it’s usually not that bad. I break some teams and a bunch of riding horses and mules. The one thing I’ve learned over the years is that you put the time in training and it pays off no matter if it’s under saddle or in a harness.

[J-L]

I don’t understand all the hub-bub. Nothing in the video looked out of control to me. More speed don’t necessarily equate to less control if they’re trained for it.
I think you need to see these same horses hooked to that ‘skook’ or to his binders. They work just fine on those extremely loud, noisy machines. I’ve also watched these horses skidding logs or plowing. From what I’ve seen they’re darn good farm horses that have a good handle. A little speed isn’t bothering them it seems.
I hope this argument don’t run people off. From my perspective, a little diversity wouldn’t hurt.

[J-L]

As usual, great video Neil. That’s some fancy driving and I sure do like your horses. Like I said before, I sure wish you was closer to me or vica versa. The way things are headed here with development and land prices (not to mention the election, economy, etc…) I may sell out one day and find a place up there where it’s cold enough to keep all the people away. I thought 7000′ up in Wyoming would do it, but people love to summer here.
I’d love to come up and do some farming with you and run some of that cool equipment you’ve got running.
I really thought I was doing something when I drove 3 abreast, makes me humble when I see you driving 8 up or 46 or whatever!

[J-L]

For the work I do a 1200-1500 lb is enough. I’ve worked saddle horses on the feed trail and they work fine. Small horses/mules can do a lot of work. But at some point with the lighter animals you flat run out of traction. That extra 200-600 lb per head can mean the difference when getting a load started in bad footing.
Having said that, I have had a few big horses that didn’t like to work all that well and some little ones with loads of heart. I agree that it’s up to the individual animal and the guy on the end of the lines.

[J-L]

Thanks for the replies. Spring is a busy time for me with calving and other chores. This ground is at 7100′ elevation and we don’t have much time between last and first frost either.
Sounds like it may be better to do in the spring, but time constraints may force me to put it in this fall. I’ll keep you posted.

[J-L]

People still put up loose hay around here. Most use power sweeps(buck rakes) and farm hand loaders with the hay heads vs beaver slides or overshots.
We used this method until most of the siblings left the ranch and the labor pool dried up.
This method was used on fairly heavy hay as well as thin hay. Parts of our ranch that are irrigated will put up 4 ton to the acre in the only cutting you get. Getting your hay dry is not a problem here usually though. Lots of wind, which also keeps your stacks blown free of snow if you put them in the right place.
There are lots of old buck rakes and overshot/slide stackers around this part of the country to cannibalize for parts. But I’m sure you can make some thing work out of available material if you really put your mind to it.
Interesting post, I hope something comes of it.

[J-L]

Didn’t get my cart made yet Neil. Still trying to get caught up on spring work. Still have cattle on the hay meadows as there isn’t any grass on my range yet. Barely quit feeding cows a week or ten days ago.
That cart is a great idea. I have a 2 wheel forecart but there’s times when you can definitely see the advantage for the 3 wheeler. I’m hoping to get one welded together this fall or winter.
I picked up another little ranch to lease so will be running 2 boblseds this winter feeding around 300 mother cows. The place is 6 or 7 miles cross country from my homeplace so I’ll stash another team there and keep one home to feed replacements and such.
I’m working on my teams to go 4 up this year. Last winter was a rough one and I could have used 4 up quite a little breaking trail with the bigger loads going up the grades.
Keep cranking out those videos. Might really need them to teach the world to operate without diesel before too long. Besides, I sure like to watch them.

[J-L]

Hi Neil. We’ve visited before on email. I’m from Wyoming and you helped me with your 3wheeled forcart plans and ways to make 4 up hitches work. Sure am glad to hear from you here.
For those of you who don’t know Neil, he is a fountain of information. He’s used more horses for more things than I would have thought possible in this day and age. He is someone who we can lean on for a bunch of information. He raises some beautiful Percheron horses and uses them for everything under the sun. Big hitches (huge hitches) of horses are one thing that comes to mind.

[J-L]

Runaways happen. Work in different environments with different animals long enough and you’ll have it happen. Even the equipment failures that some people think you can completely control are out of your control. Having said that, it’s not a bad thing to try and shut them down if you can. This thread started in the vein of safety. Runaways aren’t always about good/bad teamstering or teams.
I read Donn’s post about slack line driving and was glad to hear someone else use this method. Most of my work is wagon/sleigh work in the winter and I’m by myself. My teams have to be able to work on a slack line and some voice commands while I’m up on a load of hay feeding. It doesn’t take much training to get them to come around to this. You can still pick the slack out of the lines and drive them as some have described on a snug line if you need to. I worked a team of Belgians for a couple years that had been worked on tight lines. Nice team but slightly heavy in the mouth. They didn’t work for me because they didn’t like to move out on a slack line and when they did it made them nervous and gathered up speed fairly quickly. I tried to get them to walk the feed grounds for me but it wasn’t to be. Never got over it either. They just felt comfortable with some contact with the bit. They made a nice team for someone else.

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