[jac]

I had no idea such a variety of horses had been brought in Simon !. thats what comes with having only Clyde friends that only show i suppose. Where about is the apple jack horse standing ? Thanks for the info on that. Im trying to get a fone number for the percheron horse thats not far from me at Moffat but I thinkhe may be outon loan down south..
John

[jac]

This thread is realy interesting. Most of my work involves wagon and hitch cart. I try to set up the angle of draft so that an imaginary line passes from the hame hook,thru the tug and on thru the equalisers to end in a point on the ground 2 3rds of the way back on the wheel base. The older men tell me that a lot of modern Clydes at 18 hands are too tall for efficient draft because of the uplifting action of the pull. 16.2 is said to be the best.. I imagine if the draft angle on a wagon is steep and thus the line of draft ends near the front of the wheelbase, it would have the effect of trying to lift the front of the wagon as well as trying to pull forward.. Also if too low and ends with the line out behind the wagon, will that not create a slight downward pressure on the front axle.. not a real problem on tar but what about on soft ground ? I try to spend a bit of time setting this up as im trying to eliminate as much unnesisary draft as I can. When I look at the plans for the old railway delivery wagons the splinter bar was always set higher than the hocks and most ran on 39″ front wheels with a full lock..
John

[jac]

Chronic Progressive Lymphedema is the disease thet leads to the “greasy heel” in a lot of the heavy feathered drafts. Most of the time it can be controlled with a milkshake like mixture of sulpher and pig oil but some horses seem to get a lot worse as they age over 15. Seems that their immune system kicks into overdrive.. Will have to check out with a few people and find these Suffolks Jason ,thank you for the tip off. I think it would be a great cross for farm work..
John

[jac]

I’d heard a few were heading this way. Any ideas for an outcross I could use to dilute the CPL in Clydes.. I’d thought Suffolk but Scotland is pretty much a closed shop to anything but Clyde..
John

[jac]

Simon am I right in saying that the Dutch draft is the modern name for what was known as the Flanders horse ?? If so then these were the horses that the Duke of Hamilton imported to Scotland to effectively start the Clydesdale breed in the 1700’s. The Friesian played a part to.. I ask because I am considering an out cross and wondered if CPL is an issue on the continent ? also we have a friend interested in bringing a quarter horse into Scotland..
John

[jac]

Yes I get the same comments Mitch. “It would be cheaper to buy” blah blah blah.. But they completly miss the point. Time spent with family making/growing is worth far more to me than spending time in a traffic jam to end up in a giant warehouse.. cant call them a shop.. to stand in line and see right through the marketing ploys that they use, not to mention quietly fume at the price they charge for milk !!! then spend even more time in another trafic jam on the way home !!!. Thanks but no thanks.. Sad to say even our farmer friends cant see the other way. Caught up in the high input/high output way of most modern agriculture.. On a lighter note my “make instead of buy” policy backfired one time.. Decided to make tomato ketchup. Long story short.. ran out of my own tomatos and had to buy some. ended up costing twice as much as regular ketchup.. so now there is a saying in our house “not worth buying it for 1.25.. John will make it for 3.75”.. you win some, you lose some:D

[jac]

Great discussion here. Lots of good points. Making the jump from oil and money dependancy in one go is nigh on impossible unless ther’s a bit of money in the pot to carry you through the “transition”.. Every situation is different though. Jason in NZ has landed an ideal situation, conservation is a “niche” market now.. that will change in the future and become the normal. Anyone using horses for real work are in the same situation and we should grab any chance to work with our horses and get paid into the bargain. My own way of doing it is to take small steps by gradually making/growing the things we need and thus reduce the amount of time/money I need to spend away from home. I agree its so easy to get caught up in the rat race.. You start off with a beater and fix it yourself.. you then work more hours at work and cant find the time to fix the car.. you buy a more reliable expensive car.. need to work more hours to make the payments.. and so it goes on..Taking small bites works for me.. drive a beater car, make my own equipment as much as I can,dont do the fancy holidays but have a stable of great horses that we are getting work for now at Robert Burns{scottish poet} cottage.. A niche market I know but the horses are making money and its the only way I can do it in our present situation..
John

[jac]

What a beautifull restoration !!! well done to all involved. I can only imagine the turning force on the output shaft, but I bet its impressive. 14 big drafts would take a lot of stopping. What length are the poles? 14ft? Jeez the torque figures will be high when transfered to the middle…Countymouse!!! help:D….
John

[jac]

The late Charlie Pinney of the UK developed draft springs for the trace ends, I havent tried them myself but i think a few of the horse loggers over here use them so i recon they must be of benefit. Mabey Simon can chip in if he has come across them. I ordered the spring hitch on my plow from pioneer so will find out how that goes soon i hope..
John

[jac]

Hey Bivol I like the law “avoidance”:D .. is it legal to give pork away ?? if so then give it away with a very expensive plastic bag to carry it home in:D.. Really only kidding..
John

[jac]

Thanks Erika.. In that case my next question is do you know of an organic way to control worm count in my horses bearing in mind we are severely limited in the amount of grass we have. 4 work horses and we operate a night shift/ day shift rota on 10 acres. 5 of which is shut off till a single cut of hay is taken. Not an ideal I know but its what I have and just have to work round it..
John
ps.. did you ever get the equipment thread to Leon at Pioneer ??

[jac]

Me and Caitlyn are building a hen tractor:)… only half a dozen hens but its enuf for what we need.. Its going on wheels that i can lift to lower to the ground. Weld mesh for the floor to stop mr fox. Had plannedto use it on the toilet areas of the horse field and move it every 2 days… Question is… we worm the horses with Ivermectin based wormers. Will this be a problem for our hens ????
John

[jac]

I’d second you on that Geoff.. I’ve been hitching Clydes for years but reading how Donn put that description of checking the breeching made me realise what a valuable asset your idea would be to up and comming teamsters.. especialy if no mentor is close to hand..
John

[jac]

I notice the pigs are a major factor here and as Carl says they smell ,move fast and make strange noises… I have a book that details the old Scottish horsemen and their recipies for horse control.. One involved pig dung smeared round the stable door to stop a horse from passing. A horseman that wasnt in the society or had been disrespectfull to the head horseman for example would get this treatment.. the “whisperer” would then step into the stable and apear to say a few words to the horse and lead him out to the astonishment of all. He had simply neutralised the smell of the pigs.. Perhaps the same could apply here. It would be one less of his senses sending messages for the horse to worry about till he gets to see the pigs are ok to be near ? an empty salt and vinegar potato chip wrapper wiped over his nose is said to work..
John

[jac]

Carl you really should write a book on this.. you’ve a great way of explaining things in simple foremat.. using the picking up the foot example, I used a similar technique on my 3yr old filly.. She was at the stage of being driven with her mum in the hitchcart and every now and then would stop for no aparant reason.. probly my own fault if I perhaps lost contact.. anyway what I did was rather than upset them by trying to keep them going I anticipated her move and I purposefully said “woah”.. made her think it was my idea.. now she steps out ok.. seemed to work for her..
John

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