[jen judkins]

:D:D:D That Was Hilarious!!!

[jen judkins]

@near horse 5607 wrote:

Let me use a recent example. I was working with each of my horses individually (one in the pasture while the other was with me). We just went over some basic stuff – giving me my space, loose leading, standing untied …
They each did fine until we walked down the road out of sight – then they started to get anxious (they are kind of herd bound). The partner was nickering while the one in hand was having trouble paying attention to me. So, what should I have done?
call it good and head back to the herd.
continue onward competing for attention
refocus the horse on me (send energy through lead rope, yield his hindquarters …) then continue

Geoff, I’ll be interested to hear what Carl or Donn would do, but since I have a quiet moment in my day, I’ll tell you what I generally do in that situation. First, I don’t take it personally. When you take a horse to the point where he is worried, you can use that to reinforce your leadership. I think of these spots on the road going away from the barn as thresholds…if you go through too many before becoming aware that your horse’s anxiety is escalating, then you may have to just go back to where he feels confident again. But if you can pick up on the anxiety when it is at alow level, you can keep your horse’s attention and be constructive. Generally, when I sense some anxiety in my youngster, I get him moving his feet, yielding his forequarters or hind quarters, changes of direction or even sideways, then we go back towards the barn with that kind of activity…so its alittle work for him. When he is calm, I withdraw that pressure to keep him moving and we walk quietly away from the barn again. Most of the time you will get quite abit further away from the barn this time, as the horse senses that it is simply easier to walk away from the barn, than have to go backwards or sideways towards the barn. I hope that makes sense. You then simply build on that…make the right thing easy and the wrong thing difficult. Keep in mind that you don’t want to get to the point where your horse is panicked. They don’t learn well in that state. But its good to get them to the point they are looking for a leader…you just have to step up and give them the plan.;)

[jen judkins]

@manesntails 5595 wrote:

How many animals trained by being hooked totally green with an older more steady animal can then be hooked alone and taken to town? Just about zero. If you think that in a month’s time the green horse is doing just fine and learned it all from the other horse, just hook him single then tell me what you’ve got…… an emotional wreck. You taught the horse NOTHING. He is not relying on you directing him.

Manes, My peanut was trained this way….. He was harnessed with a seasoned horse for a week, then he was harnessed single and he did alot of light work alone…happily. By the end of 3 weeks I was skidding wood with him myself in the woods. He is not emotional about it at all. I can drive him all over town (and he has to go alone, as I do not have a pair for him).

I don’t understand why you are so sure of your position on this? I’d be in some serious doubt by now, given the information shared here.

[jen judkins]

I’ve been a student of natural horsemanship for years and I go out of my way to make sure my horses get the best deal possible when I do anything with them. J-L’s story is a wonderful example of natural horsemanship in practice. Its not cheating, its not cutting corners…its using the natural tendency of a horse to seek comfort within a herd….its very simply…smart. There is little stress on the youngster, and when they do get uncomfortable they ‘come back’ quickly, given the seasoned horses responses to the conditions they find themselves in. Over time the youngster learns his own confidence and confidence in the teamster. It doesn’t get any simpler than that for the horse.

I think its wrong to assume we can control every little detail and step along the way in training a horse. They have to be part of the process, make mistakes, get worried and learn how to calm down again, etc. Using their innate tendencies and applying consistent ‘language’ causes the least stress to both horse and teamster. As Carl described, you don’t prevent the horse from moving, you simply correct them by consistently reinforcing your intention for them to stand in a certain spot.

[jen judkins]

@manesntails 5582 wrote:

Yet, those of you who know nothing of the methods I use immediately dismiss them without having one tad of knowledge of the method nor do you care to know. It’s just not as good a method as yours cuz it takes too long.

Its true, there is alot of room for assumptions:rolleyes:, but I wonder how much time you have spent on a working farm? Its easy to get defensive, but I would encourage you to keep an open mind…its clear you care about horses and that’s all good.:)

[jen judkins]

@near horse 5578 wrote:

What does that mean – do what it takes? I know it depends on the situation but give me a hypothetical. Perhaps, address highway’s issue

Hmmm…what DID I mean:o.

I guess what I mean is that there are some instances where you have to get help from someone who knows how to fix the problem. I, like you, have alot of horse experience, but not much experience driving or farming with horses. I did what I could with my youngster and am proud of the training I was able to give him. But there was a point where I had to ‘sh*&% or get off the can’ and I wasn’t prepared to go the next step with him (or more accurately did not know what the next appropriate step was)…so I got help.

As far as I can tell, if you weren’t born on a farm with working horses, you (I) have very little chance to acheive level of comfort with the work to be done to not screw it up at least at first. So you choose, work at your own pace, trial and error, and you might make a few mistakes (some might be more serious than others) OR you get help to get started. I figure its nearly impossible to diagnose a training problem and make an accurate recommendation by email or within this forum. There is a degree of observation or awareness that is necessary to evaluate the problem accurately. I know its frustrating. And you are absolutely right….’there’s alot of competition amoung the knuckleheads’, so that’s an added challenge…finding someone who will approach your horse and his training in a way that you feel comfortable with. After all, you are gonna have to continue the work.

In addition, there are differences in approaches between those who earn a living working their horses, compared to people like me who have day jobs and think of farming with horses as more of a hobby. Those who rely on their horses heavily are so used to getting the work done (focus) that the obstacles are minimized. So they do little in the way of ‘training’….they simply ‘lead’, and the horses follow suit. The intention to get something done is a powerful engine in that regard. I’d love to get to the point where I had that level of leadership with my horses, but I have to work within my own context and that might not be possible given my other responsibilities. Sorry to prattle on…

[jen judkins]

I’ve enjoyed this thread. Couple comments…

When I took Peanut to Ted for training, a casual onlooker might have observed Ted working with Peanut briefly one day and then slapping a harness on him the next day for a spin around the pasture with his trained horse, Clayton. Over the next 2 days he was pulling a manure spreader and discing. Sounds like a pretty accelerated program, huh?!? What is not included in this story and might not be obvious to the simple observer, is that Peanut had quite a bit of what I like to call ‘foundation training’. He was handled since he was 3 months old, taught to give to pressure, handle ropes around his flanks, learned to be tied, wore a bridle and a saddle. I even rode him twice. By the time Ted got him at 2, he was pretty easy to work with.

I think the ideal situation to get a well trained confident work horse (which BTW, is something very different from a harness racing standardbred) is to start with a very young horse and a very experienced teamster. The horse gets a good foundation and when it is time for the harness, its a non-issue. We’ve heard from many teamsters in other threads about this type of success.

However, sometimes the situation is not perfect…:p There will be no one way to handle a horse that needs retraining, or has little foundation for what ever reason. These can be BIG horses, with BIG energy and there are gonna be times when you need to do what it takes to get them into the program. Its a simple safety issue.

One of the things that I think make experienced teamsters so successful is their focus on the task. Horses dig that kind of direction and leadership. Sometimes, one can get so muddled down in minutia triing to take little baby steps, our horses get bored or worse, try to take over. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt:rolleyes:.

As for horses only being able to think about one thing at a time….well, I think that is a huge oversimplification. There are smart horses and there are not so smart horses, but all horses work well with patterns. These patterns can be quite complex,…surprisingly so. I agree that training should be developed in such a way that it makes sense to the horse. Mark Rashid talks about how each step in training is like a link in a chain…it should link to one of the previous links….but he’d be the first one to tell you to get out and DO something with your horse. Success probably has more to do with how much purpose there is in your training, than the number of steps from a to b. JMHO, as usual.

[jen judkins]

:eek::D:eek::D:

[jen judkins]

I hadn’t seen that…so thanks. Those are my skijoring buddies and looks like it was filmed the day before our race…cool. Your daughter is welcome to come try her hand. We will be in Newport on the 14th and 15th.

http://www.nesja.com

[jen judkins]

I don’t think there is any reason to believe this bill will be ressurrected by anyone, though I agree, the state is in a ‘revenue generating’ state of mind…so everybody pay attention.

[jen judkins]

I really like to believe horses understand the fragility of children…my horses always seem to act that way around them…but who knows.

[jen judkins]

Thanks for posting this, Jason. I’m still fired up from our fight here in NH, so have some momentum behind me to stay involved.

[jen judkins]

Yes, the bill is dead on arrival. I got it from the sponsors mouth.

[jen judkins]

I heard both directly from Rep. Carla Skinder, herself and through the NHHC this am that Carla will ‘Kill the Bill’ before the hearing today. YEAH!!!!!

So anyone taking the day off to go to the hearing, you might want to stay home…though I bet there will be a good party down there in the lobby;)

Thanks, everyone…this was a very effective campaign against a bad bill….lets stay involved and continue to stand together.

For those of you in other states, keep your eyes and ears open!

[jen judkins]

Chestnut mare, I have already responded to Carla Skinder’s response. I know Carla personnally (we skijor together…or did…past tense) and feel she is being overly naive to believe that this bill will protect or help unwanted or neglected horses. The truth is, this bill is designed to bring in revenue to the state and local governments. There is no oversight as to how the money is spent…so it is a non-starter (and yes, Robert…she will be packing her bags very soon, help or no). In addition, the bill will increase the number of unwanted and neglected horses in the state. There are a number of large refuges for unwanted horses that will go bust if the bill is approved. So I am now optimisstic the bill can be overturned. Stay tuned…the hearing is tomorrow. I can’t go….but managed to have a few strong arms to attend in my stead (lawyers, lawyers and more lawyers). If you go, don’t forget to sign the blue pages which record your opposal. Thanks.

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