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jen judkins
ParticipantHey Erin, Welcome to the forum. I’m a parelli grad too. Jen.
ParticipantHi Ed, We’re neighbors..I’m up in Springfield. Welcome to the forum. Jennifer.
ParticipantAndre, I’m sorry to hear about your big guy. I admired him at the NEAPFDs. All of your horses are gorgeous…but he definately stands out.
Some thoughts… an 18 hand 5 year old strikes me as an injury waiting to happen. Like many human teenagers and sports, rapid growth and even mild stress can cause problems. The good news is that these ‘developmental’ injuries have a very good prognosis and generally respond well to rest. The horse, in particular, is remarkable in its ability to heal, given the time, good nutrition and a condusive environment. The fact that the x-rays show mild abnormalities, to me, is encouraging.
If he is as stoic as you say, this might be something that has been brewing for some time. I have one of these horses, that will do anything for you and the problem is they will just as soon injure themselves than stop triing. You don’t necessarily know they are hurt, till they finally come up lame and at that point you might not have any clue what the original injury was. It definately can be frustrating. Your vet knows you want a concrete answer and will likely do her best to find one….but the truth is, without definative findings, they’ll likely be guessing. Even the ‘big guys at the big house’ will be speaking from their experience, which of course is more extensive than your local vet, but will still be just a guess. Can you tell I’ve been through this a few times;).
With such a nice horse, I really think he deserves a chance to heal himself. If he were mine, I would turn him out with a quiet herd (reads no rough housers), pull his shoes, keep him in a balanced trim and let time take its course.
I went through this with my best saddle horse a few years back. The vets couldn’t figure it out…..mystery hock problem, minimal x-ray findings. I finally agreed to retire him at the ripe old age of 9. I turned him out as above and low and behold a year later, he was not only sound, he was fitter than when I was riding him 5 days a week. He went back to work and has never had a lame day since. He’ll be 15 this year and is still my best horse. Luckily I had the time and space to let things get better on their own. I know some couldn’t or wouldn’t commit to that amount of time and I can understand why….but if the horse is special, I’d do it again in a heartbeat.
Good Luck. Jennifer.
ParticipantI’m probably not in good enough condition to weigh in on this right now.:( I have a cold, just took a man size dose of antihistamines and am working on a glass of wine…so please take that into account, particularly if my grammar is poor:D.
The issue of unwanted horses has been heavy on my mind lately. Its not that I would hope to find homes or rescue for all of them, it that I feel most horse owners (in contrast to most other livestock owners) are very limited in their choices with regard to horses that are no longer wanted, cannot be fed or cannot sustain their keep.:eek: And that poses a problem in regard to what can be done with them. Sure there is euthanasia, but the cost, along with disposal issues make this a challenging option.
The fact is, slaughter can be an option. I often wonder what a nice system we could have in place if horse lovers (and lobbyist…I hope they are the same) would channel their energy towards ‘humane’ slaughter protocols, instead of insisting that horses are not meant for meat and forcing the door shut for that option. Just like abortion, a ban does not reduce the number of procedures, just increases the risks.
I don’t like liver, but I sure won’t tell you not to eat it, if you like it. I love horses…alive and breathing and working. I wouldn’t eat one (unless I was starving), but I can’t find it in myself to condemn others for eating horsemeat, paricularly if it was slaughtered the way I would like my beef and pork slaughtered…with as little stress and duress as possible.
That said, there are alot of nice horses out there, people are just giving up on, so it pays to pay attention. I don’t think that Pestopower should take on the brunt of this controversy. There are some of us that have the room, the disposition and some extra cash around to ‘recirculate’ some good horses…and that is something worth doing. I’ll bet Beth would rehab these horses even if no one contributed. So lets not be hasty with our opinions.
Its complicated…Jennifer
ParticipantIts nice to have you here, Jorg. I suspect you will learn alot by reviewing old threads as much as anything. I am not a cattle person, but have learned an amazing amount just ‘listening in’ on some of the Oxen threads. There are some very talented teamsters here.
Do you have a team? Jennifer.
ParticipantNice to have you, Robert…characters welcome;).
Do you have any photos of your trail machine at work? I’d be interested to see it. Jennifer.
ParticipantWonderful! I enjoyed that bit of cultural education…thanks, Bivol!
A question…for any Oxen folk. Why are Oxen heavier than bulls? I noted in your description that the bulls were generally between the cow and oxen in size. Is this because the bull puts its calories toward procreation and not stature? I’ve been told that a horse gelded late will generally be shorter than if gelded early. But I’ve seen a few bulls up close (closer than I wanted) and found them to be a very intimidating size. Just a question from someone knowing nothing about cattle:rolleyes:
jennifer.
ParticipantNice Jean! Thanks for the reminder too! I’ve been wrestling with snow all afternoon…when really I should simply enjoy its beauty:rolleyes:
Tell me more about the runners? Will they fit any cart? Where do you get them?
Jennifer.Participant@Carl Russell 4143 wrote:
I don’t worry about a cold horse, nor a wet horse, but a cold wet horse is another thing.
A couple of years ago, My riding horse Manny and I were out at Green Mountain competing in one of their 25 milers. It was late April or early May and a typical NE spring day, drizzly and raw. The temps really didn’t drop lower than 50 and we had no trouble staying warm trotting down the trail, but by the time I had Manny cooled down and ready for his final vet check, he was shivering from head to toe. It was truly scarey. I was unprepared as well, armed only with a couple of coolers, as this horse never wears a blanket, even in sub-zero temps.
So add exertion to wet and even moderately cold and a horse can get into trouble. Carl’s post reminded me of this story. Jennifer.
ParticipantI agree with what everyone has said here….hay, access to shelter and unfrozen water are really all most horses need, even here in the northeast. That said, I have two horses that sometimes need a blanket for added warmth, generally only during a storm. While most of my horses have a thick insulating coat and snow will pile as high as 3 inches during a storm, my TB and aged QH just get wet backs. I guess it is due to their wimpy winter coats…while they stay warm in very cold, dry conditions without an additional layer, add some moisture and they get cold.
So a word about blanketing. IF you choose to blanket a cold horse intermittently (meaning they are not body clipped and need a blanket all winter), I recommend a wicking layer next to the body like fleece or wool to wick the moisture off the horse, then an insulating blanket. Putting a single layer on a horse will not warm them, just tamp down their fur, preventing their nature ability to warm themselves.
I also notice alot more activity with my herd when the temperature dips low, probably their way of warming up.
We got a nice foot of snow here last night…beautiful! Jennifer.
ParticipantWhich version is most common in the USA or are our belgians a third variation of the breed? I have a neighbor who claims his belgian is european brabant…he is indeed big and roan in color, which stands out in comparison to the common belgian I see most. The history is fascinating…thanks Simon. Jennifer.
ParticipantInterestingly, I had my crew down there the very same day, rescuing a mini stud going to the slaughter track. Weird coincidence…
Anyway, will your rescues be up for adoption at some point? If so I might be able to place the big guy. It wouldn’t be a working situation, just a nice home. I have a friend whose wife has horses and he has always dreamed of having a older, big draft horse to call his own. He specified the ‘big’ and ‘draft’ parts. Jennifer.
ParticipantI too am concerned about residual toxins and antibiotics. I rarely use traditional wormers on my horses, but rely heavily on ‘manure management’. If I do chemically worm, I separate that manure and send it to my burn pile in stead of the compost bin for a few days. Its not very scientific, but ‘feels’ right to me. I use manure as compost all over the farm and want it to be as clean as possible. Parasites are an issue. I do fecals on my horses very regularly to be sure their parasite load stays low. I’ve been lucky…probably because the land I came to was never stocked with animals, so I’m not dealing with decades of questionable pasture management.
That said, I’ve of the mind that we shouldn’t keep our environment too clean…I think it is healthy to be exposed to plenty of microbes. I’ve always found it interesting that my dogs (we have 6) who eat horse manure fresh off a steaming pile all day, never have worms on their fecals each year…I’ve actually never had to worm them.
If you are getting manure from a boarding facility that does worming every 6-8 weeks, you might want to pass.
jennifer.
Participant@Gulo 4067 wrote:
My neighbor and at times mentor who’s been driving and farming with horses since the age of about seven, and is also a saddle-bronc rider in the rodeo (no fear of “adrenaline situations”) told me that he always heard, “Walk ’em out (to the field), trot em back.” But he says in his experience, “Walk em out, walk em back” is the best approach.
Gulo, This is the crutch of my original question. If you want your horses to walk 90 % of the time, why introduce the trot or canter? I believe horses are fully capable of understanding that while they are in harness, they walk (unless asked to do otherwise). But during training, in the early training drives…do you ‘go there’, just to be sure you can? Or do you simply employ the pattern of walking and deal with the occasional speed up as necessary? Jennifer.
ParticipantBecorson, I enjoyed your prose on the blinders issue. I agree wholeheartedly…what works, works. What doesn’t work, needs a different approach. Jennifer.
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