[mstacy]

@Carl Russell 6393 wrote:

Also I never let my horses stop on their own. This is why I watch their effort, so that I can stop them while they are still trying hard,
Carl

Carl,

I’m just starting out, but I intuitively believe that your point about never letting the animals stop on their own is absolutely crucial. I have two young Devon teams (sorry to be talking boves in the equine thread) that I watch very closely so that I can stop them if they start to falter.

I think this increases their confidence that I won’t ask for more than they can give and reinforces the “who’s in charge” issue. If they get accustomed to stopping on their own I think I’ll be pretty much done for.

I also stop them when they start taking a crap though they would gladly keep pulling. Seems like common courtesy to give them a moment to tend to their business. But then again maybe that’s the fabled “Devon intelligence” and they’re playing me for a chump. If so they can only play that game so many times in a session before running out of ammunition.

I have mistakenly hitched them to loads they couldn’t start. So far I’ve realized my error quickly enough every time to hitch them to something else rather than making multiple attemps and turning a small failure into a whopper. I consider it to be more of a failure in my judgement than in their strength or ability. As such I try to minimize the impact of my error on their confidence.

Matt

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Elke,

I appreciate the photographs and information. Thank you. I am particularly encouraged to hear that you achieved this without stocks … though I don’t delude myself into underestimating the amount of training required to achieve that. I was able to pry a tack out of one of my animals hooves, but trimming and shoeing are much more advanced. You’ve given me a goal.

Matt

[mstacy]

Jen,

Have you heard of “skijoring mounted shooting”. It was the next video that popped up on utube when I followed the link that you posted at the beginning of this thread.

It looks to have fantastic potential for a Darwin award … but an absolute hoot!

Matt

PS: Would Peanut maintain his composure while dragging a gun toting skier plinking targets on the fly?

[mstacy]

I have two young Devon teams (heifer & bull and a pair of soon-to-be-snipped bulls). They are teaching me as we go. I have them stand, without tying, while I load firewood on their sled. At first I had to say “whoa” VERY often while shuttling wood to/from the sled. Now they stand very well on their own.

They are very steady when they can see me. If I am working behind them they have a tendency to turn sideways and look back if they lose sight of me behind them. The sound of my voice will ussually keep them planted in those situations. Ussually an occasional reminder suffices. I try to expose them to distractions (open/close garage door, rattling chains, tossing wood onto the sled, etc) regularly.

They have walked off a couple of times. That is more likely if I stop them pointed down hill. We’re still working on that! 😉 Turning them to face a wall, bank, tree or other suitable obstacle helps tremendously but really doesn’t address the underlying issue. I believe patience and repetition is the only real solution.

I agree with Carl’s point. Train them to stand still while you work, but don’t depend on them when the consequences of failure are not acceptable. They’re just animals and we as teamsters own the consequences of any actions / inactions.

Matt

[mstacy]

I purchased two pairs of Devons in October. The pail-fed pair were friendly and docile from the get go and responding to voice commands within two days. They made me feel like a hero.

Then the pasture raised pair arrived! The were about the same age but more like wild animals by comparison. They have come around but it’s taken months of effort.

I’m working both pairs in yolk now. They can pull a sled full of firewood and chain skid very small logs through the snow. They’ve pulled a crude snow plow to clear the driveway as well.

The pail-fed pair is very docile now but it took a long time to get here.

[mstacy]

Some well-intentioned local citizen (anonymous to me) has been complaining that I don’t provide adequate shelter for my cattle. Animal cruelty is not something I take lightly. My four young Devons are my pride and joy.

After investigating, the town animal control officer concluded that I provide adequate facilities and my animals are well cared for. The town officer consulted with State officials to confirm that finding. The animal control officer and selectmen made repeated drive-by’s to confirm that I do in fact bring my animals in at night.

Obviously the person who filed the original complaint was not satisfied by this finding. We received an unannounced visit from a Vermont Department of Agriculture “animal health specialist”. After touring the barn and talking with my wife he quickly concluded that these animals are healthy and well cared for. He left a brief written report to that effect. It certainly didn’t hurt that my wife showed him the yoke and sled and explained that these animals are trained daily. In a subsequent telephone discussion I asked him to write a letter to my town selectboard summarizing the visit in more detail. I need some documentation on public record supporting my position as I fully expect that the complaints will continue.

My cows have yet to spend a night outdoors since I purchased them in October. I put them out in the pasture with hay and water during the day. If rain (near freezing), mixed precipitation, or subzero temperatures are in the forecast I keep them in the barn for the day. I can tell you they’re pretty jazzed up after a day in the barn. The definitely prefer being out of doors. In the morning I put out a small pile of hay in front of the barn and give them each a bowl of grain. They generaly wander down to the pasture on their own. I follow them down, close the gate and make sure they have plenty of water.

In the evening I open the gate and lead them back to the barn. They aren’t in any particular hurry to leave either. I don’t treat them any differently now than I did before the complaints started.

I find myself torn. On the one hand I am pleased that local citizens are vigilant in reporting animal cruelty. But I now find myself feeling harassed by an anonymous individual who remains unconvinced by the findings of the town and state officials charged with investigating such occurences. The whole situation is extremely disheartening. Fortunately the satisfaction of pulling a small load of firewood when I get home from work makes up for it.

Matt

[mstacy]

@CharlyBonifaz 4484 wrote:

@Donn Hewes

anybody using oxen for this work?
elke

Charly,

My first attempt at a snow plow is not nearly as fancy as Don’s. It’s just a 2 x 10 stood on edge (blade). I butted a long 2×4 (tongue) perpendicular to this with the top face of both boards aligned flush. Sheet rock screws fasten both to a small plywood gusset. I certainly won’t win any sculpture or architectural awards with it but it actually works better than expected.

My 7 month old Devons can pull it around the driveway pretty well (unshod). This is a very light plow so it does not clean right down to bare ground. I haven’t incorporated any angle adjustment yet either.

Don’s photographs inspire me to build another.

-Matt

[mstacy]

Bivol,

Great thread. Thanks for posting. The podolian’s are gorgeous. To my uneducated eye, Chianina’s and Charolais look like they could have a podolian ancestor way back.

Regards,

Matt Stacy
W. Topsham, VT

[mstacy]

@Donn Hewes 4081 wrote:

The largest and most mature trees in this stand are the Ash. In the last few years several of the ash have died. Several more show weakness in their bark or in the crown. I need to do a web search but was wondering if any one knew what was killing them? Is it local or wide spread? Is it certain to kill them all or just some of them? Donn

Don,

I’ve read reports that the “Emerald Ash Borer” is hammering trees in the upper midwest. Northern Woodlands magazine published an article on this within the last year or so. The last map I saw shows it’s territory wrapping around NY state on 3 sides. My understanding is that this is an exotic pest, threatening to expand it’s newly adopted home. It might be worth having a forester or somebody knowledgable about tree pathology determine what your trees are suffering from.

I would bet that Carl, Jason and others can provide more insight.

-Matt Stacy
W. Topsham, VT

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@JBurch 3990 wrote:

Also, I am a little bummed out that most of the oxen driving events are in the northeast. I have not found any activities on the internet in the central plains states. If someone here knows of events in the central US that include oxen driving, I would appreciate a heads up.

JB

Tillers International and the Midwest Ox Drovers Association might be good resources to find events in your region.

[mstacy]

@Patrick 3939 wrote:

I stack and burn. Mostly I stack and leave it, mainly due to my concern for forest fires. I don’t want to leave a continuous carpet of slash to fuel a fire and cause it to spread easier. The interrupted piles at least somewhat reduce that. Only rarely do I cut and leave, despite the ecological benefits.
IMO, we in New England have become complacent about both forest fires and hurricanes, because we don’t often experience either. Since the last big ones, we’ve built up areas which are now at high risk, and I worry what will happen when we finally get hit badly again.

Patrick, you raise an interesting point regarding forest fires in our region (North East). I’m very interested to hear more on this topic from you and others.

Much of the logging and forest history that I’ve read suggests that most forest fires in this part of the country resulted from rough logging practices back in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries … the days of George van Dyke, J.E. Henry, and the like. They were clear cutting on a massive scale to feed river drives, logging railroads, and hungry mills. It was a fascinating period of history and a testament to the resiliency of our forests. I’m hopeful that the science and art of forestry have developed far enough in the interim that we don’t repeat that test. Public response to the massive forest fires and land slides resulting from excessive harvesting contributed to the establishment of the White Mountain National Forest. The west Side of Kancamagus pass was a big piece of the Henrys’ stomping grounds.

I think most of the fire towers that we see on high peaks and ridgelines of Vermont and New Hampshire (Belveder, Stratton, Smarts, and many others all long since abandoned and falling into disrepair) are primarily leftovers from a bygone era.

Many western states face significant forest fire risk every year, but the climate is very different. Summers in the north east are relatively wet.

Regards,

Matt Stacy
W. Topsham, VT

[mstacy]

My first team is a devon heifer and a bull. I’ve had them since October. They’re about 6 month old now.

This will become my breeding pair, but I’m taking the opportunity to begin my never-ending education in the drovers’ art. I’m sure Luke will become far too nasty for the yoke as testosterone poisoning taints his thinking, but I intend to keep working Magnolia as a single.

For now they are working quite well together. They pull a small sled to shuttle firewood to the house in the evenings. We’ll drag a christmas tree out of the woods here shortly. So if working a cow isn’t possible please don’t tell me:) I’m having boatloads of fun with my coed team. These two have taught me so much already and there’s worlds more to learn.

I also have a younger team of devon bulls that I will castrate shortly. I’ve only yoked those guys a few times now. Mostly halter training thus far.

Regards,

Matt Stacy
W. Topsham, VT

[mstacy]

What I don’t know about draft animals vastly outweighs what I do know … but learning is a great adventure. I really appreciate the suggestions and encouragement. Thank you everyone.

-Matt

[mstacy]

Victoria,

Thanks for the encouragement. I was lucky enough to attend several great workshops at Animal Power Field Days this fall. I’m grateful to Carl and Lisa for making that event happen and to all the experienced teamsters who were willing to share their knowledge.

I’ve got a four month old heifer and bull calf paired up. I’ve been having a blast pulling a crude sledge with them (they do the hard part). We’re building up to longer pulls and shuttling firewood from barn to house … a few arm loads at a time. I have a slightly younger pair of bull calves (Stanley & Earl) coming along too, but developmentaly they are way behind Luke and Magnolia. Luke and Magnolia spoiled me … “woing” and “going” the first weekend I got them. Stanley and Earl are making me scratch my head and ponder a bit more. Food treats and some of the other tricks you mentioned definitely help. Actually I found a brush to be one my best resources for befriending those two. They LOVE having their neck and jowls scratched. Stanley and Earl are just starting to gee and haw in halter. We each learn at our own pace. One way or another I work each of them nearly every day, usually twice. I’m learning as they learn.

I’ll tried to attach a photograph of Luke and Magnolia pulling the sled last weekend. It was too large for this site. I’ll try to reduce the resolution when I get home. Keeping them even is my biggest challenge. Perhaps my logic is flawed, but I’m thinking its easier to control the rabbit if I keep her close to me. Luke is the tortoise … but very calm and reliable so I keep him on the off side.

Post photos of your team when you get a chance.

Regards,

-Matt

@Victoria Reck Barlow 3717 wrote:

Hi, Matt —

Congratulations on your boys! It sounds like you’re off to a great start.

My Milking Shorthorns just turned a year old, and I’ve been having so much fun with them.

What helps me the most: learning more about what steers are capable of. Is there any way you can mess around with an experienced, well-trained team? Better yet, can you attend one of the Conroy/Huppe workshops? Also really helpful is watching teamsters in action in the handy classes at fairs. The Conroy/Huppe DVD is chock full of useful tips.

People will tell you to devote some time every day to training, and that seems right to me. It’s easy to do if you count all contact time as training — moving the guys singly in halters, picking up feet, anything you do with them to strengthen your connection to them. Try to get inside their heads, so you know how they think and can predict how they’ll respond to different situations. True confessions, here: my Labrador retriever taught me that food is a powerful motivator! I keep a supply of apple chunks on hand to reward extra good behavior.

Please keep us posted on your progress!

all best,
Victoria

[mstacy]

Thanks for the feedback pigpen. I’m quickly coming to agree with your assessment of the disposition of Devons. The bull calf that we plan to keep intact is a very sweet critter. We’re going to stick with the halter, do our best to socialize him, and hope for the best. The freezer is plan B.

We also have a Devon heifer and two more bulls destined to become working steers.

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