[OldKat]

Good story sean518. Glad it has a happy ending. Sometimes a neighbor can live 30 miles away. About 25 years ago or so we had moved to the other end of the county where we resided and had only been there for a short period of time when we had disaster strike. My wife and our children, then about 2 and 6 years old, had been visiting my in-laws for the week. I had been out of town on a business trip and got to the place just about sunrise. As I drove in I noticed all three of our horses were down. When I went over to investigate I found that the Morgan mare that my wife had owned for about 25 years, my Percheron mare and her 30 day old colt were all dead. It didn’t take long to realize that they had been huddled together in the pasture when a cold front moved through & lightning from the accompanying thunderstorm had stuck my mare and killed all three.

I tried to contact my wife to get her to stay at her parent’s house while I could get the horses taken care of, but when I called them I was told she had already left to come home. This was the days BCP, before cell phones, so I wasn’t able to reach her while she was in route home. I knew few people in that part of the county and none with a backhoe. I did know a guy named Harold in the area where we had previously lived that had one, but I was unsure about calling him to bury horses early on a Sunday morning since I didn’t know him real well. I did know that he would be heading to church soon, so I went ahead and called his house hoping to catch him before he left. I explained the situation and he said that he was willing to come bury them, but couldn’t be there before late in the day that afternoon or early on Monday morning. When he noticed that I was sort of quite about it he asked if that would be okay. I told him that my wife and children were on the way home and I was hoping to get the horses buried before they got there. He asked how long before they got home and when I said “2&1/2 or so more hours” he said in a very matter of fact fashion; “I’m on my way”.

Harold was at our gate in probably 45 minutes and was just finished placing the last of the backfill over the burial site when my wife turned down the lane. We were a sad family that week and it still bothers me to this day that I didn’t make plans to have the horses left up in the pens so our neighbor’s son could feed them while I was gone. However, it was springtime and the grass was already green so I reasoned that they were better off out on pasture. Just an unfortunate accident I guess, but that day I learned two things: 1) that I had a real friend in Harold and 2) that neighbors don’t necessarily have to live just across the fence.

[OldKat]

If I were you, I’d check with the Ranching Heritage Center … or what ever it is called at Texas Tech Univ. I know they had a bunch of equipment at one point, maybe 12 or 13 years ago. They might have someone that has researched that stuff.

The Panhandle Plains Museum at Canyon, TX had a ton of stuff they had restored; that was probably 30 years ago. Not sure what they have up there now, but when I lived up that way I use to drop in from time to time. At that point in time, there was a guy that worked there who had done most of the restoration on their wagons (probably had 30 of them or more) and some farm equipment. He was a wealth of information and had a ton of books and periodicals that he had collected for reference work in restoration.

I would also just google it using as much information as you have about the equipment. Amazing what will sometimes come up that way, including links to websites about restoration and / or books etc on the subject. Taking this stuff to an Ag. Mech contest by any chance?

[OldKat]

Good story. Scary, but good. Glad you had put the time in with tem so that you and your team were able to work through this. You certainly make a great point.

[OldKat]

Wow John! Beautiful work. I really admire a person that can take something that is going to waste and restore it to a vital, functional asset. Talking about barn envy … I’ve got a serious case looking at what all of you guys are doing.

[OldKat]

Sound like you are getting along fairly well already. Heck, I may have to come learn from you if I ever do manage to make my move “up narth” (local joke).

[OldKat]

Robert, what breed are your goats? And have you seen anything on some breeds being more prone to eating the brushy species than others? We haven’t historically seen many goats were I live, but in the past 12 to 15 years we have started seeing more and more Boer goats in our area.

From what little I have watched them they don’t seem to be too keen on eating the brush and forbs like the old Spanish goats did, but that is just a very casual observation. I have heard that the areas 300 or 400 miles west of me where they have always raised a whole lot of goats have also switched over to the Boer or Boer/Spanish cross and their loss to predators has soared. The thinking is that the larger, almost all white Boers are easier for the predators to see at night. I dunno, guess so.

I did see one thing that I never thought I would see and that is someone grazing goats behind a standard 5 strand barbed wire fence and they were staying put! There is a guy that has pasture land in the eastern gamma grass bottoms along the creek south of town where I live. He has about 50 or 60 Boer goats and he just puts them in one pasture or another just like they were cattle and I’ll be darned if they aren’t staying where he puts them; no gaurd dog or anything. That would NOT work with Spanish goats, they would be gone by the time he drove out the front gate. Haven’t figured out if the goats are eating the gamma grass or the weeds that are growing up in it. Have to investigate further.

[OldKat]

@near horse 27526 wrote:

I know of someone in CA that uses their goats for fire suppression work – eating/clearing brush around home sites in fire prone areas. They also got contracts on some “right-of-ways” – like where power lines run over head. Like Robert’s experience, they’re booked.

Also, there’s been more than a bit of work at some universities looking at what/how young animals learn to eat “novel” or new foods – like a weed species.
In our area at the University of Idaho Range Department is Karen Launchbaugh and another big name in Utah is first name? Provenza. Can’t recall which school he’s at.

He was at Utah State last I knew. He has done some fantastic work on training animals to eat noxious / invasive weeds & brush that they wouldn’t normally eat.

Here is a link to his curriculm vitae:

http://www.cnr.usu.edu/files/uploads/WILD%20Vitaes/ProvenzaResumeCitations.pdf

[OldKat]

Jerry, I am about 350 miles or so south and a little west of you & hope to end up about 175 to 225 miles north and a little east of you. Therefore, I can’t help you out in any way & probably will have some of the same questions that you have if I am able to get relocated to NE Oklahoma.

If you are after small grain production I’d endorse using the approach Countymouse suggested. I am not quite sure why you want to plant grains for your livestock though. You are right in the middle of one of the finest grazing regions of the entire nation. Generally adequate rainfall, nearly ideal climate for grasses, long growing season and pretty decent soils. All point to a forage based operation that is far cheaper and more efficient than anything you can do with small grains.

Oats and/or wheat may be a nice crop for supplemental grazing in late winter or early spring before your native grasses or Bermudas green up, but it is not a cheap crop to establish and good luck getting anyone to come combine it unless you have at least a couple of hundred acres planted. If you plant a small patch I would add in some clover and graze it completely out, then establish permanent pasture in that area if you are so inclined.

As far as other resources, don’t forget about the Noble Foundation. I haven’t been on their site in several years, but their reports and printouts use to be free to people in Oklahoma and Texas. Also, spend a few bucks and subscribe to the Stockman/Grass Farmer Magazine. Get on their website, they use to send a free copy for you to look at before you subscribe. Plenty of useful stuff in their publication, much of it tailored for mid-America. Your County Extension service will also have info on planting small plots. Almost anything that is set up for wildlife should have application to what you are looking for in way of your 4 legged friends. Can’t help you what-so-ever as far as what you are trying to do for the two legged members of your outfit!

Good luck.

[OldKat]

@FELLMAN 27460 wrote:

Very nice Rod, im building a new barn as well also due to snow bringing down the old one , here is the new one

Wow, both of you guys have nice projects going. A barn is a fun thing to put together isn’t it? I always enjoy building them, even if I am just helping someone else build theirs.

What are the specifics on yours, FELLMAN? i.e. dimensions, construction method, materials used, intended layout and use, etc.

[OldKat]

From what I can see of it, I like this too. Anymore pictures of it? What do they cost? You can PM me if you would rather not posst the price.

[OldKat]

I like it. Is your hitch point on the axle of your forecart, or is that an illusion in the photograph?

I also like your green pastures; I haven’t seen that much green grass in three years. If we can get our house sold we are planning on moving to NE Oklahoma. Have to look you up when we are going through some time.

[OldKat]

Erik,

Interesting. I can’t wait to see the pictures of your rice project. IF, IF, IF I am able to sell my place and relocate to NE Oklahoma I was going to look for a place with some heavy bottom land to try to grow some rice, hopefully something I can have hulled for brown rice. Suspect that if it does happen that it will be the first rice ever grown in that state.

It is funny that you posted this today, because as I was driving by some of the last remaining rice grown in our area I was thinking about your rice crop way up there in Vermont & wondering how it was going. You had mentioned in a post something about transplanting the rice and I was wondering why you transplanted rather than just drilling it in. I take it from your post today that your growing season is too short to drill the seed in.

RE: The idea of using cattle for tillage; when rice was introduced to our area a little over 100 years ago that was exactly what they did. They flooded the fields and drained them. The when the soil was wet, but not sloppy they drove cattle back and forth over the fields until the soil was cut up. The apparently used some sort of harrow to smooth things out, then they broadcast seed by hand & drove the cattle over it again and again. Once the rice was up 4 to 6” they flooded again. Probably was not the most uniform stand of rice ever grown though.

In our area few weeds will grow in the flooded rice and no grass that I know of except possibly eastern gamma grass, which is unlikely to sprout on soil so recently tilled. I am sure they used some herbicides for this, but I really don’t recall. I suspect that you would not use any chemicals on your rice and sounds like the ducks are an interesting alternative. The commercial guys here, back when we had tens and hundreds of thousands of acres of rice growing locally, used fungicides because the water got fairly stagnant. Of course that was probably due to our hot, humid summers. Will that be an issue for you? If so, will you just flush and re-flood the field?

Finally; at what moisture level due you think the rice will be come harvest time, how will you dry it down for storage & how do you plan to mill and store it?
Oh, BTW: rice hulls make a nice addition to your compost pile. They make a light, fluffy, moisture holding compost. They do compost slowly though, at least that was my experience with them.

[OldKat]

That is a shocking, terrible situation. I don’t think any of the people that regularly post to this site, or any that do so infrequently for that matter, would even consider dumping a dead horse or dog off like that along side of the road. Yet people will do that with a child. How sick is that?

If the child died of an accident, just step forward and tell the authorities what happened. Even if someone caused the death through neglect or even outright abuse, there are better ways to deal with the situation than just dumping them like so much trash along some remote stretch of highway. Poor little fella deserved better than that. Hope they find whoever did this and hold them accountable.

[OldKat]

@Ixy 26951 wrote:

Sympathies about the drought – our land is usually exceptionally wet, and everything is adapted to that. Last year though it was dry, and we lost 3months of grazing (and stupidly sold our hay). So we ended up eating up ALL our reserves of silage, built up in the good years. Now this year has been even drier (after 2 exceptionally harsh winters, too), and the cattle are covering ground so fast that until it rained the other day we were worried we were going to have to bring them in again and start feeding bought in forage!

Fingers crossed for more rain as what we’ve had isn’t enough alone. But, we are looking at culling a good number, as this winter is going to be short on forage whatever happens. This is where lots of little animals really comes into it’s own though – you’re culling in little increments.

Sounds like you are on about the same curve I was on, just about two years behind me (drought wise). Hope it works out better for you than it did for me.

Really pretty bummed out (I think “bum” means something different on your side of the pond than it does on ours) about the whole thing because I really put a lot heart and soul into it, but it just wasn’t meant to be. I’m pretty resilient though, if I can get our house and property sold I am interested in moving about 700 miles north (where the rainfall is a little more consistent) and starting over again.

Anyway, good luck with your situation.

[OldKat]

Ixy; I was actually thinking more of a big picture, historical thing than boots on the ground current producers. I am sure there are American cattlemen such as J-L who do a wonderful job with their cattle. Maybe I am just soured by the terrible job that people, I won’t even refer to them as cattlemen, do in our area with their animals.

Or maybe I am just despondent over the fact that I have finally had to throw in the towel and sell my herd because of the drought. There is only so much I can do with intensive grazing to offset the relentless, nearly continuous drought that has plagued our area since about 1998 or so. Really tears me up, because I had spent about 8 or 9 years selecting moderate framed, easy keeping type individuals to do just the type of thing that you are doing and now it gets all blown away in the course of a single season. Disgusting, just disgusting.

Anyway, your comments about the frame size of the continental breeds remind me of something that took place in an collegiate animal science class I had some 35 years ago. My professor was talking about frame sizes and he placed his hand, palm down about waist high. He said that back in the 40’s and 50’s we went “here”, indicating the shoulder height of cattle in that era. Then he raised it midway between his waist and his shoulder and said now we are “here”. He then raised his hand to shoulder height or a little higher and said that he was afraid that we were heading “here”, meaning probably frame 9 or 10 cattle. Some of the students asked what would be wrong with that and in turn he asked “Can you imagine how much feed it will take to finish a steer that size?” It was a great point and worthy of consideration. Unfortunately many of the know it alls in that class were snickering under their breath about him and openly mocking him as we walked out into the foyer after class. They were clearly in the ”bigger is better” camp when it came to cattle frame sizes and couldn’t even conceive of such a thing as frame sizes ever getting too big.

Had they not made such a big deal about it I probably wouldn’t even have remembered the incident at all. However a few years back I heard a beef cattle specialist at the local land grant university say that we were definitely going to have to downsize our animals because they had gotten too big and with rising grain costs the feedlots were going to demand more moderate frame sizes. Corn was probably ½ what it is now, so I suspect the feedlot boys are really starting to squirm now. First thing I thought about though was: ” Well, I guess old Dr. Nance wasn’t so stupid after all”.

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