[OldKat]

@near horse 7090 wrote:

How common a problem is this? My young team also doesn’t fair so well when driven single. They don’t run off but act as if they don’t know their cues as well (my impression). In fact, when ground driving they do (or try to) whirl around as Doug described. They don’t run off but it’s evident they aren’t as comfortable by themselves. It willbe easier to work on this when I can get off the county road and into the field. “Dancing” in the roadway, no matter how much minor travel it gets, is still too dangerous.

I tried posting this before, but it just vanuished. So here goes again…

I was just thinking yesterday about posting nearly this exact same post. BACKGROUND: I had borrowed some equipment to have my mares pull, but the organization that owned it decided to relocate and reorganize & I had to return everything to them. Since it was still up in the air as to if I was going to retire, change employment, relocate, etc, etc I didn’t think it prudent to spend a bunch of $$$$ on equipment at this time. So I elected to ground drive my girls as much as possible, maybe build a stone boat etc to pull etc. I have had NO problems when I drive them this way in the arena, in the pasture, out on some leased property.

However, since I have started driving them out on the road (which I started doing with them as singles) I noticed that they are very “anxious”. Several times they try to spin and head back to the barn. I don’t let them get away with this crap; they end up going where I want them to go. It is just that I had been thinking that the problem was being out on the road. Maybe it is more a matter of being away from their teammate or they are just plain barns our.

Anyway, I had been just using a curcingle and lines on them and driving either directly behind them or slightly off to either side. When they decide to spin around the lines “pivot” at the curcingle and everything comes to a complete stop until I can get them pointed in the right direction. Since I have the rest of the single buggy harness, as well as team harness, I thought I would put a set of rings on the hip drop and string the lines through them as well as on the curcingle or, if using the team harness, on the hames. That way I can keep them a little better lined out. Do any of you more experienced types think this would be of any value?

Keep in mind they are not continuously spinning away from me, but for example yesterday while I was ground driving each of them (probably 35 minutes or so, covering probably 1.5 miles or more each) both of them did this at a small bridge probably .25 miles from the barn and once or twice more as we encountered things such as people with leaf blowers, a boogey monster manhole cover etc. Nothing “serious” happened, I just don’t want them thinking that this is acceptable behavior. Thoughts? Bottom line, is this an issue that I can address with equipment or should I look to pair them up with a more seasoned horse?

[OldKat]

The first sign of spring for us is the geese leaving the coastal plain heading for points north. There are no longer the flocks of 100,000 plus that we use to see when there were tens of thousands of acres of rice farmed south of us, but we still see enough flying over to be noticeable. That was a month ago. Most of the oak trees are now fully leaved out; the crazy Live Oak trees are into their full countercyclical mode and are now loosing theirs. Azaleas are almost done blooming; the huisache brush is covered in yellow flowers. Supposedly the French cultivate this stuff for the flowers, which they use in perfume. They can come get all of it that want here; we will give it to them! The last “sure sign” of spring is when the native pecans leaf out. They haven’t spoken yet, so it isn’t a done deal …but it is coming sure enough.

Today I put out the last of the hay I am likely to put out, of course I thought this two weeks ago as well. I had to buy 15 more rolls of hay 2 weeks ago today just to get through the unexpectedly cool and dry late “winter” spell we were having. Checking the cows for new calves late Friday a week ago I was dismayed to see that the grass had started to green up, but was no more than 1/4 to 1/2 inch tall. Then last Saturday winter took one last shot at us, never getting out of the low 40’s, and a light but steady rain fell all day. Wind chill in the low 30’s. The 2 rolls of hay I put out Saturday were quickly consumed, long gone by my Wednesday morning check. Same with the hay put out that day, just vanished. Then it warmed into the upper 70’s for several days, only dropping into the mid 50’s at night and the grass exploded.

Today’s check revealed that there is only 3 head left to calve, but more importantly the grass that was only gleaning green a week & a half ago was a good 3 to 4 inches tall. The cows looked at me like I was crazy when I put out the round bales. After eating that stuff for a full 90 days they wanted no part of it. Came upon 9 or 10 does browsing in the brush while I was checking for one last calf and they didn’t even budge, they just watched me go by on the tractor. They know that winter is done and with it deer season has ended. The ingredients for spring are all here, we just need to add water and watch the results. There are signs the drought is trying to break, and hopefully it will soon. Spring is a good time.

[OldKat]

@near horse 7090 wrote:

How common a problem is this? My young team also doesn’t fair so well when driven single. They don’t run off but act as if they don’t know their cues as well (my impression). In fact, when ground driving they do (or try to) whirl around as Doug described. They don’t run off but it’s evident they aren’t as comfortable by themselves. It willbe easier to work on this when I can get off the county road and into the field. “Dancing” in the roadway, no matter how much minor travel it gets, is still too dangerous.

I was just thinking yesterday about posting nearly this exact same post. BACKGROUND: I had borrowed some equipment to have my mares pull, but the organization that owned it decided to relocate and reorganize & I had to return everything to them. Since it was still up in the air as to if I was going to retire, change employment, relocate, etc, etc I didn’t think it prudent to spend a bunch of $$$$ on equipment at this time. So I elected to ground drive my girls as much as possible, maybe build a stone boat etc to pull etc. I have had NO problems when I drive them this way in the arena, in the pasture, out on some leased property etc.

However, since I have started driving them out on the road (which I started doing with them as singles) I noticed that they are very “anxious”. Several times they try to spin and head back to the barn. I don’t let them get away with this crap; they end up going where I want them to go. It is just that I had been thinking that the problem was being out on the road. Maybe it is more a matter of being away from their teammate or they are just plain barn sour.

Anyway, I had been just using a curcingle and lines on them and driving either directly behind them or slightly off to either side. When they decide to spin around the lines “pivot” at the curcingle and everything comes to a complete stop until I can get them pointed in the right direction. Since I have the rest of the single buggy harness, as well as team harness, I thought I would put a set of rings on the hipdrops and string the lines through them as well as on the curcingle or, if using the team harness, on the hames. That way I can keep them a little better lined out. Do any of you more experienced types think this would be of any value?

Keep in mind they are not continuously spinning away from me, but for example yesterday while I was ground driving each of them (probably 35 minutes or so, covering probably 1.5 miles or more each) both of them did this at a small bridge probably .25 miles from the barn and once or twice more as we encountered things such as people with leaf blowers, a boogey monster manhole cover etc. Nothing “serious” happened, I just don’t want them thinking that this is acceptable behavior. Thoughts? Bottom line, is this an issue that I can address with equipment or should I look to pair them up with a more seasoned horse?

[OldKat]

@Thea123 7125 wrote:

We moved into a ranch nine months ago that abuts a 1200 acre ranch that has about 70 herefords free ranging on it. I know nothing about cattle and our ranch has no cattle or livestock. Two days ago a cow died near our lower meadow. Today the herd crossed over the river, went to the place the cow had died and congregated in a tight bunch there for about an hour tossing dirt on themselves and smelling the ground where the cow had lain dying. Then the herd went and surrounded the dead cow (I watched this with binoculars). They seemed to smell it, nudge it, lick it, especially around the face, almost like they wanted it to get up. They stayed clustered around it in a tight group for about two hours. What on earth were they doing? The cow is being fed on by coyotes packs and vultures. I tired to search for cattle reactions to death in the herd, on google but came up, amazingly, with nothing! That is a first for google. Either the cows were all curious or having a cow funeral? Any ideas.

One thing I have learned in the past nine months is that cows seem smarter than I thought. One last question, the man who owns these cows only feeds them tortillas. (I am not joking.) This is okay now when the fields are full of green grass, but in the summer it bothers me, because the fields are dry as bone. I’ve heard in the past that the cattle, would break through our fence in the summer to eat our grapefruits, although they have not done this since we moved in. Is it okay for cattle to eat only dry, dead, brown, grasses all summer in California? Do they need hay?

One last question. Sorry. What happens to a cow when her calf dies and she is full of milk? There seems to be one such in the herd.

Oh dear! I hope I have not become the cow social worker!

Thanks for setting me straight please!

Thea

Thea,

I’ve seen cows do similar things when one of their herdmates dies. I have no idea why they are doing it, but unless the cow died from some contagious disease it probably doesn’t hurt that they are doing so. I’ve seen on a TV documentary that wild elephants will do essentially the same thing, even to the point that the remains are only skeletal some year or more after the death. How do they know that the bones in question belonged to a “friend”? I don’t know… but they sure do.

I’ve heard of people feeding bread from the day old bread store. Tortillas, wow that is a new one. Cows can handle all sorts of protein and carbohydrate products and byproducts because of their ruminate digestive tract. Question is, what kind of condition are they in when it is dry and he is feeding tortillas? If they calve the next year the answer is obviously “good enough”. They may look thin to you, but if they are cycling and settling (getting pregnant) then they are probably okay.

One of the first things to go is reproduction when a cow is not getting enough to eat. They may produce milk for the calf they have and their body condition score will reflect it. However, the next year they often don’t calve. You would be surprised how fat and slick a cow like that can get on only dry, dead looking grass if she has no calf pulling her down. I guess it is natures way of balancing out resources.

If a cow has a calf die her milk will eventually dry up. Sometimes you can graft an orphan calf onto such a cow, or a calf that you buy from a dairy farm … BUT the cow has say in this deal and the answer is often NO!!!!

[OldKat]

@Bret4207 7002 wrote:

Erika, I think you’ll be hard pressed to find an average cop on the road who knows anything at all about Coggins or any of the Ag + Markets laws. Maybe around Saratoga or something, but I know in 20+ years I was never told anything about Coggins tests or anything like that. The only thing generally covered in Ag + Market laws was disposal of dead livestock. “A dead horse must be buried at least 3 feet deep within 72 hours”. Learned that 22 years ago at the State Police Academy and it still boggles my mind! What do you do in winter?

Bret,

We have the same law in Texas that Erika is talking about in NY, though I don’t think the plastic photo credit card is an option here. The way it is enforced is by the Texas Animal Health Commission, who has police powers in issues regarding animal health. I have never heard of them coming onto anyone’s property to confirm negative Coggins status, but out on the road is a horse of a different color (BAD PUN, I KNOW … SHOOT ME!)

Say you pull into a sale barn to drop off some calves and happen to have horse in your trailer; they (TAHC) will require Coggins papers before you can even go through the check in. Not sure what they can do, because the only time I was ever stopped was pulling into a county fairground with some saddle horses for a youth play day. They would not let us enter until we got our papers in hand. Fortunately it was just the adjoining county and my wife brought the papers and met us on the highway.

I have heard of several other people that were actually detained, or at least the horses were, until the papers were available for inspection. I have never heard of anyone being stopped on the road for a random check, but technically it could happen. Not sure what the fines are for hauling horses that do not have a negative Coggins test.

Generally the TAHC guys are good people, just doing their job and I want to see Coggins controlled so in this case I don’t see this as intrusive government.

[OldKat]

@Bret4207 7004 wrote:

For those using these trailers in your farm or busines, if interested I can fill you in on most of the DOT requiremnts. I spent the last 5 or 6 years doing DOT work, but you’d better get the info quick, I’m getting old and the memory fades……..

Bret,

I’d like to know what the current requirements are; is this something you can post?

Geoff,

Someone else stole my thunder, “stock trailers” are much cheaper in my area than “horse trailers” even if they look exactly the same! I am glad you opened this thread, because my horses have outgrown my horse trailer. I looked at several options and the heavy haulers in this area say stay away from the lighter weight aluminum trailers due to a tendency for welds to crack. No one has mentioned this on the heavier weight trailers so I presume it is not an issue.

If you are handy with a grinder, a torch & a welding machine you might fix one up the way you like it & save some $$$$ while you are at it. For instance, I have an old 6.5′ W X 6′ 3″ H x 20′ (not counting the neck) gooseneck cattle trailer that I built in 1976, in a college ag mech class, that was just sitting around doing nothing. Fortunately, I had pulled the flooring out when I quit using it probably 15 or 20 years ago so it has practically no deep rust on it even though it sits outside. I am going to cut the very top (pipe top) off and raise it to at least 7′ inside height, but am thinking more like 7’3 or 4″. Around my area an old trailer like that would only bring about $1,200 to $1,400 or so. That means you can get out of this deal with your skin.

It has a cattle nose (pipe basket front, app, 2 foot deep) that I intend to cut off and replace with a sloped metal front that I can use for storage. I also found some tool boxes that I think will fit under the fenders for additonal storage. I think I can do the whole job for less than 2K, but even if I had to buy the trailer I’d still be at well under $4,000. That ain’t cheap, but it still is way cheaper than going to a dealer somewhere and buying one to fit my needs. Maybe you can do something similar. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

[OldKat]

Not to minimize your posts, it is just that I found your discription of your location to be extremely funny. Sometimes all they leave you with is humor!

[OldKat]

Kinda funny that the guys riding the Longhorns were wearing sombreros and rode Mexican saddles. While the young lady riding the Indu Brazil, or whatever Indicine breed that happens to be, is wearing what appears to be American style western wear and is mounted on an American style stock saddle. I thought for sure that was going to be Argentina, but the link says she is in Brazil.

[OldKat]

@ADKLogger 6837 wrote:

Jean, I have to admit that since I have gotten my new buddy Petey, we took the make shift sled for a ride one day up the road and I let off the reigns a bit and he actully got into a pretty good gallop, and I could tell he was having a good time for a while, but then I brought him back in to a slow trot and there was a whole shift in his demeanor.

I guess just like kids we gotta let them burn it off, and they will pay even closer attention to what is going on. Unless there is something you do not trust about your bud, don’t be afraid to give him the reigns once and a while. And don’t hesitate to listen to a little George Strait to set your mind right.;)

Both Petey and I grow each day we do something, and the story continues.

-Frank

Now you’re talking Cowboy Cool!

[OldKat]

Ronnie,

Unfortunately I am better at welding and fence building than I am at digital cameras and posting to websites. Tomorrow I will be at the property where I use the most of them, if I can A) find my digital camera & B) figure out how to use it again, I will take some pictures and then C) see if someone on this site can tell me how to post them! I tried to check out the Push-A-Post website, but it no longer works so they must be defunct.

Great concept though. I’ll do what I can to get some pictures & dimensions up.

[OldKat]

@Carl Russell 6822 wrote:

I had a strange feeling the first post by Humble1 referring to another post that suggested that demonstrations like “The flying Frenchman”, should be put to a stop immediately. Then there were several other phrases and terms he used that made me wonder until today when it was just way too obvious.

You tell me!!

Oh well it really doesn’t matter, humble1 went too far anyway, nothing against Neil.

Carl

… as I read that whole thread. I actually remember reading it when it first started, but I guess I never read the rest of it because I would have recalled all of those “interesting” posts.

I had wondered why Neil no longer posted any of his videos anymore. Too bad, because I enjoyed watching what he could do. Clearly he has great skills as a teamster.

Guess I was hitched to the right tongue, but had the wrong team. Thought for sure “humble1” was actually “John”.

[OldKat]

@humble1 6798 wrote:

OH MY OH MY are you full of it!!

humble1, did you use to post on this site under the name “John”?

[OldKat]

@Bret4207 6705 wrote:

Gene Lodgson spoke of a perennial wet spot that was fixed by sinking a drain pipe below the hard pan to allow the water to drain. Might be an idea if you don’t have rock under you like I do.

Willows will use a lot of water, just don’t et them near your septic lines as the roots play havoc with them.

I have a similar situation in one of my fields. a low spot that always collects water. You can see the old open ditches that were plowed through. When I get my D4 finished I intend to reopen them. Not the answer for everyone I know, but a little judicious grading, by animal or mechanical power, sure can make a difference.

A friend of mine bought about a 30 acre place just down the road from my place. He was at the bottom of a small grade and probably half of the place was constantly standing water. He shot an elevation on it and saw that he had enough slope to move water, so he dug a series of ditches in a herringbone pattern with the main ditch running out to the bar ditch on the highway.

At least that was the plan. Shortly before he started ditching, the 5 acre piece of property across the fence sold to a non-profit group that was putting in a Boys & Girls Club facility. Their property was low, too, so he sold them enough fill dirt to allow him to build about a 1 acre pond. They had the pond excavated and used the soil to build their property up. He got a pond and the ditch was routed to it to feed the pond.

Worked like a charm; no drainage problems anymore, he has a nice pond & the Boys and Girls Club land was built up enough that it no longer floods. Everyone came out winners in this deal.

[OldKat]

@near horse 6162 wrote:

Robert – Oh, THAT’S what happened to you:). Just kiddin’. As Carl mentions a good charger (or charge) is THE key. Over time, an uncharged fence will end up w/ animals getting out.

We haven’t had much luck w/ electric netting. It’s a real bear to get the posts into the ground when it’s dried to cement consistancy.

I would like to hear about how you all do your corner posts on your permanent boundary fence. RR ties are common out here (not for the weak of back).

Are metal “T” posts commonly used in other parts of the country? I know they are common in the south, but not so sure elsewhere. Funny, I’ve been in almost every part of this great land; just never noticed the fencing I guess.

Anyway, if you use “T” posts in your area there is great design for turning two T posts into a semi-permanent corner post assembly with a brace called a Push-A-Post (also made from 2 T posts). Works great for electric fence, and probably could be used for up to a three wire barbed wire fence or a 36 to 40 inch net fence with or without a barb wire on top. This was a commercially available product at one time, but not so sure it is being manufactured anymore. I know that the owner of the company died a year or so ago. However, there is no law against making a product that is copyrighted if you are doing so for your own use. Also, they are easy to make if you can weld. DO NOT MAKE SOME UP AND SELL THEM, THAT WOULD BE ILLEGAL IF THE COPYRIGHT IS STILL IN EFFECT.

Essentially, at the end of a fence line you drive T post with the face flange (the top of the T) facing back toward the fence line you are installing, then you drive one facing the opposite direction right beside the first. The bottom flanges of the two T posts are essentially side by side. The first T post is driven deeper, leaving only about 36 to 40″ above the ground. The other T post is driven to standard fence height.

The Push-A-Post is made from one T post that is cut down to probably 48″ in length with a small piece of pipe, maybe 2 &1/2 inches in diameter welded on the end, this slips over the two T posts in the fence line. This is the base of the assembly and the face flange goes face down, running the same way as the fence. Toward the other end of the base another T post is bolted through the flange to form a brace of about 45 degrees, but the angle can be adjusted as needed since the bolt is not snugged down tight. On the other end of the brace piece is a small piece of pipe, maybe 1/4″ to 3/8″ in diameter and about an inch long welded to the end of the T post. A bolt with a piece of plate steel cut into an “L” and maybe 1/4″ thick is welded to the bolt & the whole thing (bolt & metal L) pivots in the small piece of pipe. This becomes a latch that hooks over the little raised projections that run down the face of the T post. (I’ve only ever heard these called “tits”, but that is probably NOT what they are really called!).

Anyway, once you have a bunch of these made up you can build a corner assembly in probably 5 to 10 minutes and can take them back down nearly as fast.

I know that this is not enough to go on, but if anyone is interested I can get exact dimensions and maybe even post some pictures of how they are built. I probably have 40 or 50 of these made up and the only time I have ever had one fail is when the area where the fence was built flooded and stayed under water for about 2 months. Finally the ground became so saturated that the high tensile wire just pulled the T posts completely out of the ground, brace assembly and all.

[OldKat]

Sometimes when you (the generic form, not YOU specifically) are dealing with all the issues of life that keep popping up to get in the way of that handy “To Do” list that you have all worked out it is easy to feel sort of isolated and the “why me?” whine starts to settle in. Then something (like your post) comes along and kicks you in the pants and off you go … all aligned with True North.

For the last 2 or 3 months I have been increasingly concerned about the drought here; grass that should be ankle high and dark green by now is non-existent. I fed the last roll of hay to my cows this past week, and those with new calves are realy starting to get hungry. Really had me concerned. Perspective: Then out of the blue I get not one, but two leads on suppliers that still have hay for sale AND are not gouging people that need it.

Week before last our son advised us that situation we thought was resolved was in fact not resolved and we suddenly had to come up with several thousands of dollars on real short notice so he can continue his college work. Hello Mr. Banker. Perspective: BUT … at least we have the money available; some people can’t say that.

Then Monday of this past week our daughter slipped on an icy sidewalk at Auburn, where she is in grad school, shattering her right ankle. Hello Mr Surgeon. Perspective: But … her friends, and the faculty and staff, have gone out of their way to make sure she is being taken care of. Nice to know, because we are 750 miles away and can’t do anything to help her.

Naturally Ms. OldKat decided it was more important to spend her Spring Break helping the daughter get back on her feet than to stay home and help with the projects we had layed out for that week. Well, I know it was the right decision … but it was all starting to pile up on & that old familiar whine (at least inside my head) was starting to make itself heard. Perspective: That was before I read your post! Good to know that I am not alone. I guess we all have those tough spots that we just have to get past sometimes.

Thanks for the perspective builder …

[Author]

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