[Plowboy]

Thanks for the invite Donn but having a little trouble at work. Lost one guy to a medical problem. Had to fire another. If this keeps up I’ll be supervisor of myself with a hiring freeze. I’ll email you our event dates soon for the coming year. We’ll get together one of these days. Good luck with the mare she looks like she’s doing well already.

[Plowboy]

Anything that you do with them no matter how light or heavy will keep them sharp and responsive for the times when you have an important job to do. Any work is better than no work for them. A friend of ours has oxen and in the winter he has very little work for them but each day he yokes them and hauls their manure out on a stoneboat. That frequent contact made for the best trained oxen I have seen around here. The same is true with all animals. I find that with 8 horses we sometimes play favorites and the ones that don’t get used as much aren’t quite as sharp as the one’s that work all the time. It was a good day in N.Y. to be in the woods. I had to work but need to start cutting locust posts for new fences on a section of my farm soon before spring weather changes my priorities.

[Plowboy]

I’ve also trained some older horses but it seems most get bullheaded and have there own agenda after 3yrs making training take longer and less enjoyable. More or less we are just playing around with Dan to get him used to the program. He will rake some hay next summer and some light work and by fall we may even plow the garden with him. If Dan does well in the next two sessions he will be hitched with his 3yr old sister. Dixie is good and they will work together for the rest of their lives. Why not now with a foot of snow? They could both use the driving time to get them sharp. I would rather be messing with them now than as 5 yr olds. The way they are coming along they may make some public appearances next fall teamed with other horses. All of our horses have been trained young and a few are getting old with no ill effects. The only lame horse we ever had is our Belgian which was trained at three and it was not a cronic problem he pulled a muscle out in the pasture. I guess if he was working he wouldn’t have gotten into trouble. Another point I will make is very few of us use our animals hard enough , steady enough to do much damage. Ours get used alot but not as much as they should because except for spring planting/plowing etc and harvest time/fall plowing 1 team would do most of our work.

[Plowboy]

Hooked our stud colt Dan double for the third time yesterday on the breaking sled with our big gelding. He pulls good most of the time but hangs back a little sometimes like most colts will. He hitches quiet, stands well, good on turns, pushes back with his team mate to back up the sled. Yesterday we encountered a small problem when he decided he didn’t want to go. We usually put a rope or strap between the britchen rings to keep there buts together when ground driving or backing until they know enough to stay together. I studied the situation for a second. I took the rope tieing the two britchen rings together and tied one end to the big horses hame ring. When we started the big horse leaned in the collar pulling the britchen tight so Dan would then get in the collar to get away from the pressure. It was a short lesson but he drove even from then on. 3 times around the field in over a foot of snow with a lot of rest breaks was good enough for him at 21 months.

[Plowboy]

Great looking mare Donn. She looks rugged and smart you’ll have her working in no time! I keep a team at my farm in the summer but have no water in the barn so all the horses winter at my Dads place down the road. My one mare and Dads black gelding squable alot. He’s the boss and when they get back together she challenges him. We have a small temporary corral built 5 years ago! Well it’s still there and is just across the fence from the other horses so now we keep them in there for a week or two until they get used to each other again and have far less biting and kicking when they do get together. I don’t think what you did was silly at all. It would really suck to get your new horse injured because you didn’t take a little time. That Suffolk would make a team with that Belgian by the looks. Good luck with her. Gotta go hitch our stud colt again this morning then go check in on one of our mentors thats getting close to 90. He still has 5 or 6 Brabants but can’t hitch them anymore. He does still drive if someone else will get them ready. Stud colt is going good stands well to get hitched we think he’s gonna be a good quiet rugged horse when he gets filled out.

[Plowboy]

As far as smaller horses go the Fjord is a mellow creature. They are a little expensive to buy but I have never seen one that didn’t work well or was nervous. I’m sure that there are exceptions as always but I would say they are the best of the choices that you listed. Many times Haflingers are a nervous lot and many older fellows around here have gotten banged up when they decided to get a smaller team. There are many good Haflingers but alot of bad one’s too. Morgans may be a little fast on their feet for a beginner but the old type are nice horses. I have no experience with Canadians or Newfoundlands.

[Plowboy]

I didn’t mean to take this thread in a different direction. What you are doing is great if you can rehab them and place them with people that can enjoy them, like I said in my other post. Around here there are some rescues that are overstocked which with the market is very easy to do. This year with all the rain good hay is a premium. We have enough for our animals but much of it was later cut than what we want to feed the dairy cows. The rescue folks are hounding the farmers for free hay which even if last year was a good year cost alot to make with record high diesel prices,equipment and parts. Also many rescues have a poster one eyed, lame,deaf horse with burn scars for their poster child. They have got him a little better but with your tax deductible donation this 30yr old crowbait will be a 3yr old again frolicking in the pasture and might just win the Kentucky derby if you give enough money. The most humane thing for horses like that is a bullet to make room for the young usefull horses that somebody may be able to use and enjoy for a long time.
Our horses that we have now 7 Percherons and 1 Belgian were all raised by us. They have plowed, planted, cultivated, harvested, mowed, raked, skidded firewood and sawlogs, given wagon rides for public events being gentle embassadors for draft horses everywhere stooping their heads so toddlers can rub their noses. The same gentle mannered brutes will buckle down and put 150% into the collar throwing dirt with all four feet to get a log out of a tough spot just for the asking on a loose line with no whip. Just a different command so they know they need to get after it “HERE” or “GIT” works good. When the day comes that any of them are in pain with no hope of improving they will be buried here and never forgotten.
Many folks don’t have that option or don’t care that much and their is a need to get rid of the thousands of horses that are no longer wanted or needed. Right now with feed prices I know that the hobby folks are getting out because of the expense in record numbers. There are many good usable saddle horses and drafts on the market for cheap money that need to be saved more so than one’s with special needs or issues. Good Luck in your indeavor and I hope it works out for you ,as I said before don’t take on too many at once.

[Plowboy]

A good friend that used to work with alot of problem horses used to say work them for thirty days straight and they’ll never forget it but use them often to keep them sharp. Strodes mule school if I remember right was for spoiled mules and demonstrates how to take animals that are destined for the dog food can and make them usefull. It is definately a safe way to handle problem animals without injury to the handlers. Strode and Jessup also trained some good mules but I think the video shows their procedures for problem animals.
Dave be carefull about the load when you hitch your mules. While you are concerned about preventing a runaway overloading can make baulky mules that are no good for anything. The load should be enough so they can feel it and enough so if they pull it awhile it will tire them a little. Take it easy, be carefull and get some help training your mules.Good luck with them.
Old Kat I was wondering what it was you think was skipped in your mares training? The Amish typically train horses for field work. What is it that you want to do with them? You should be working them at some usefull task all the while exposing them to different situations. Tired horses are good students. Many times I see when folks second guess themselves the horses grow bigger and stronger and they put off working them longer and longer. If they are trained to work the Hammil program won’t hurt but the longer you feed them without working them the harder it may actually become to get them to work. Not saying for sure that this is the case but many times folks talk themselves out of driving their horses.

[Plowboy]

My mother tried to get red belted out of Ayrshire cows and Dutch Belted bulls. We ended up with three solid reds and two black belted. We did some research and Dutch Belted Markings only breed true 98% on purebreds. That made our crosses less likely to come out belted. I would have thought it to be a strong trait like a white head on a hereford cross. Nice even tempered cattle and the first heifer is fresh now and is giving a good amount of milk.

[Plowboy]

My Grandfather bought two Charolais cows to add to his beef herd years ago. They were more suspicious than the Hereford and Angus cows. They butchered a steer out of one of them and it was tough. You could hardly chew the hamburger. The propreitor of the local butcher shop also claims they make some of the worst beef. As far as working animals I wouldn’t know after trying to eat that one I never wanted anything to do with them. As a rule most beef breeds are rugged and have strong legs and feet but weight is an issue as they easily become too fat.

[Plowboy]

Good point Donn I was suggesting a solution but hadn’t analized the whole situation. Experienced help is always a plus. Sometimes I forget I had a dozen excellent local horsemen to help me along the way when I was just a kid.

[Plowboy]

You’ve been given some good advice here already but after rereading you post I have something to add. In the case of a rammy or bolting horse resistance is your best friend. Ground driving is just walking and he would do that himself in the pasture. If you really want a chore horse you need to make a heavier sled or get a tractor tire to drag behind your horse. A tired horse will be a better student in a case like this. The load should be moved fairly easy but heavy enough so he has to lean into the collar to move it yet not so heavy that it makes him baulk. It sounds as if he is what some call barn sour if he runs back to the barn each time. When he is sick of what you are doing with him he decides to go back home. With a load on him if you can catch him before he tries to bolt get him turned around and go back out to work no matter what until he can walk home peacefully. The more he tries the less breaks he gets until he understands the program then reward him with breaks and he will learn to stand quicker. The quicker you get him into an honest work program the better. If he keeps getting away you’ll have a cronic runaway on your hands. Another tool I have seen used is a lungeline with a chain lead shank ran over the nose or under the chin through the halter rings. Get a rugged person to help you for a while to handle the long line. If he starts to bolt the helper still has a hold on the nose while you are gaining control with the lines. Good Luck with him.

[Plowboy]

Belgian/Percheron crosses are great horses and I would love to have a nice team of 16 hand chunky bays. My biggest problem is we have 5 Percheron mares and I just couldn’t bring myself to breed them to a Belgian stud on purpose. I guess I’m stuck with the blacks and greys unless I buy some bays someday. We still have a couple drafty percheron stallions around locally and a bulldog looking 16 hand spotted draft. If we can’t save our farm style Percherons we’ll have to look into Suffolks in the future.

[Plowboy]

I was just reading back to some earlier posts about Brabants and American Belgians. I read some years back that as hores were on the down hill slide as tractors moved in the Belgian was brought in as then what was a Brabant. It was thought to be the perfect farming horse. It never took off until horses rebounded as a hobby in the 70’s and 80’s. Back in the day the Percheron and crosses of which farmed the land of this country for the most part. Some die hard Belgian breeders took the Brabant and decided he should be sorrel, have less feather, and longer legs creating the American Belgian of today and some poor feet issues in the 80’s which seem to be improving. A mentor of mine Don Hibbard of West Winfield ,N.Y. who is 88 I believe and stands less than 5 ft tall was a long time Belgian breeder. When it got to be that he couldn’t find a stud under 16 hands he got fed up. Somehow he heard of Anne and Henry Harper and bought some Brabants and still to this day owns 5 of there descendants. I actually met Anne at the NYS Draft Sale in Cortland about a year and a half ago, nice lady.

[Plowboy]

Gulo, An old timer said to me once, ” You know what the difference between a Shire and a Clydesdale is don’t you?” . “No what is it?” …………” Nothin”. As he chuckled and walked away. Any Privately owned Clydes and Shires I have seen around here I don’t even stop to look at poor feet, bad pasterns etc. The budweiser Clydesdales were here last fall and I would have to say they were pretty nice. Good feet and legs deep bodied and well kept. They were probably the nicest Clydes I had seen until you posted your pictures on the photo page. You my friend have some nice looking horses.

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